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Is Melchizedek the Messiah


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Showing 51-74 of 74 posts in this discussion
Posted on Aug 11, 2010, 3:46:37 AM PDT
MRASELL says:
Jesus is the Desire of all Nations.
In Haggai 2:7-9 the prophet says the Desire of all Nations will come, and the glory of this latter house will be greater than the former.

The temple of Zerubabbel was never greater than Solomon's temple, and was not marked with a cloud of glory at its inauguration. This prophecy was fulfilled in that Jesus taught in the temple of Zerubabbel. As Malachi predicted, the Lord would come suddenly (unexpectedly) to his temple (Mal. 3:1).

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 11, 2010, 3:51:20 AM PDT
Sarah says:
mrasell: Melchizedek is a type of Christ, being a priest and king.

Sarah: Oh, right, the old Christian myth about biblical characters who aren't who they are, but just a kind of foreshadowing "type" of somebody else that they aren't. Very convincing. We'll just run out and change our religion right away because you parroted a Christian myth about a "type."

Jesus has no meaning of his own at all. He's just a "type" of Mohammed. Christians thought he would be a ruler and win battles. That's obviously Mohammed, Seal of the Prophets. You Christians ought to be praying in Arabic.

Posted on Aug 11, 2010, 4:23:34 AM PDT
MRASELL says:
Sarah, what do you believe the Messiah will be like? Why does God send him?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 11, 2010, 4:33:43 AM PDT
Sarah says:
MRASELL says: Sarah, what do you believe the Messiah will be like? Why does God send him?

Sarah: Why play Q&A games at this point, marc? You know very well what the Jewish idea of the messiah is. And you know very well, there is no room in it for praying to a dead man.

Posted on Aug 11, 2010, 6:45:12 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 11, 2010, 6:45:39 AM PDT
MRASELL says:
Sarah: Why play Q&A games at this point, marc? You know very well what the Jewish idea of the messiah is. And you know very well, there is no room in it for praying to a dead man.

And have you got a death certificate, or do you know where his tomb is? Have you any evidence that he is actually dead? Which leads to the question, who moved the stone?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 11, 2010, 8:50:55 AM PDT
Sarah says:
Sarah: Why play Q&A games at this point, marc? You know very well what the Jewish idea of the messiah is. And you know very well, there is no room in it for praying to a dead man.

mrasell: And have you got a death certificate, or do you know where his tomb is? Have you any evidence that he is actually dead? Which leads to the question, who moved the stone?

Sarah: And have you got a birth certificate, or any evidence that he ever actually existed? Which leads to the question, do you know where the tomb is? Have you any evidence there was really a tomb into which Jesus' corpse was put?

You Christians seem to have lost track of the burial place in which you imagine once resided the most important corpse in history. Rather careless, what?

Posted on Aug 12, 2010, 9:29:33 PM PDT
J says:
Coincidentally, I was looking at a book about the dead sea scrolls, and one of the scrolls describes Melchizedek in a way that appears to regard him as some sort of extra-human warrior Messiah, If you truly want to research your theory, I would highly recommend starting there.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 12, 2010, 9:32:04 PM PDT
anne says:
J: one of the scrolls describes Melchizedek in a way that appears to regard him as some sort of extra-human warrior Messiah.

anne: If that's the case, how is Melchizedek different from Elijah?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 12, 2010, 9:36:56 PM PDT
J says:
well for one, nobody names their kids Melchizedek anymore.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 12, 2010, 9:37:38 PM PDT
Sarah says:
J, how interesting. Melchizedek as warrior messiah! Do you have citation information?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 12, 2010, 9:47:25 PM PDT
anne says:
anne: If that's the case, how is Melchizedek different from Elijah?

J: nobody names their kids Melchizedek anymore.

anne: I meant the characters of Melchizedek and Elijah, not the name of them. But if you're serious about that being a difference, when (what era) was the last Melchizedek that we know of? I'm not aware there was ever a time when parents named their males Melchizedek.

I meant, if these characters weren't the same in terms of extra-human warrior Messiahs, which one didn't meet which qualification?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 12, 2010, 9:50:54 PM PDT
J says:
The Dead Sea Scrolls, a new translation; Michael Wise, Martin Abegg Jr., & Edward Cook; Harper Collins 1996
Chapter130, pg 455 "The Coming of Malchizedek"
I feel it necessary to clarify(perhaps without cause), that this does not reflect any theological belief of mine, I post it as a historical reference only.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 12, 2010, 9:52:29 PM PDT
J says:
Neither did. I posted the reference as a historical curiosity.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 12, 2010, 10:58:10 PM PDT
Sarah says:
J: The Dead Sea Scrolls, a new translation; Michael Wise, Martin Abegg Jr., & Edward Cook; Harper Collins 1996

Chapter130, pg 455 "The Coming of Malchizedek"

I feel it necessary to clarify(perhaps without cause), that this does not reflect any theological belief of mine, I post it as a historical reference only.

Sarah: Understood, and thank you.

Christians get pretty excited about Melchizedek, for reasons I don't understand, so i think it would be interesting to be able to offer them the DDS ancient interpretation (if such there is) that Melchizedek was the messiah they claim Jesus was.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 12, 2010, 11:10:14 PM PDT
Brit says:
Sarah: Understood, and thank you.

Christians get pretty excited about Melchizedek, for reasons I don't understand,

B: It's basically coming entirely from Hebrews, which is pretty obsessed with him. [No other NT book mentions him.]

5:4-10 "No one takes this honor upon himself; he must be called by God, just as Aaron was. So Christ also did not take upon himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him,
"You are my Son;
today I have become your Father." And he says in another place,
"You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek."

7During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek."

6:19-20 "We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20where Jesus, who went before us, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."

And basically all of chapter 7 centers around Melchizedek and how Jesus is like him. It's pretty convoluted.

"This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 2and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means "king of righteousness"; then also, "king of Salem" means "king of peace." 3Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.
4Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder! 5Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people-that is, their brothers-even though their brothers are descended from Abraham. 6This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater. 8In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. 9One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.

11If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come-one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. 13He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. 14For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. 15And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, 16one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. 17For it is declared:
"You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek."[a]
18The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

20And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, 21but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
"The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
'You are a priest forever.' "[b] 22Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

23Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

26Such a high priest meets our need-one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. 27Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. 28For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever."

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 12, 2010, 11:14:26 PM PDT
Sarah says:
Sarah: Understood, and thank you.

Christians get pretty excited about Melchizedek, for reasons I don't understand,

B: It's basically coming entirely from Hebrews, which is pretty obsessed with him. [No other NT book mentions him.]

5:4-10 "No one takes this honor upon himself; he must be called by God, just as Aaron was. So Christ also did not take upon himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him,
"You are my Son;
today I have become your Father." And he says in another place,
"You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek."

Sarah: I know it's from Hebrews, but forgive me, I still don't understand the significance. Maybe you could sum it up for me? Melch. is a high priest and he passes his high priesthood to Jesus and then Jesus is a high priest who is the sacrificed instead of the sacrificer? It really doesn't make any sense to me. Can you help me out here? What exactly in their scenario are the Christians using Melc. to accomplish?

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 13, 2010, 12:20:00 AM PDT
Brit says:
Sarah: I know it's from Hebrews, but forgive me, I still don't understand the significance. Maybe you could sum it up for me? Melch. is a high priest and he passes his high priesthood to Jesus and then Jesus is a high priest who is the sacrificed instead of the sacrificer? It really doesn't make any sense to me.

B: It really doesn't make any sense to me either...the whole book of Hebrews is pretty convoluted, especially when it talks about priesthood and sacrifices, and so is this thing about Melchizedek and Jesus. It also seems to have some theological peculiarities that don't show up elsewhere in the NT. As I recall, this emphasis on Jesus as a high priest is unique to Hebrews.

S: Can you help me out here? What exactly in their scenario are the Christians using Melc. to accomplish?

B: This wasn't something, as far as I recall, that I was ever taught about, or that was ever discussed. I would suspect that most Christians wouldn't be able to even identify who Melchizedek is. There isn't anything, I don't think, that is essential to the overall Christian scenario that has to do with him, nor is he theologically very important in general. Except to this particular idiosyncratic theology of Hebrews. But even there, I think the general interpretative approach would be more to take Melchizedek as a "type" of Jesus. I have noticed that some specific, generally not mainstream, Christian groups seem to make him more important or get excited about him, but I've seen that entirely on the internet and not actually encountered it. That probably doesn't really clear things up, but that's basically all I've got.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 13, 2010, 6:15:21 AM PDT
J says:
"Christians get pretty excited about Melchizedek"
I wish I'd known I was going to fuel their fire, I would have kept it to myself.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 13, 2010, 8:20:40 AM PDT
Sarah says:
B: This wasn't something, as far as I recall, that I was ever taught about, or that was ever discussed. I would suspect that most Christians wouldn't be able to even identify who Melchizedek is. There isn't anything, I don't think, that is essential to the overall Christian scenario that has to do with him, nor is he theologically very important in general. Except to this particular idiosyncratic theology of Hebrews. But even there, I think the general interpretative approach would be more to take Melchizedek as a "type" of Jesus. I have noticed that some specific, generally not mainstream, Christian groups seem to make him more important or get excited about him, but I've seen that entirely on the internet and not actually encountered it. That probably doesn't really clear things up, but that's basically all I've got.

S: Oh. Well, if you can't figure it out, I'm sure there aren't many Christians around who could explain it coherently. Maybe none.

J: S: "Christians get pretty excited about Melchizedek"
I wish I'd known I was going to fuel their fire, I would have kept it to myself.

Sarah: If they think he's a messiah then they've got an embarrassment of messiahs. If he's a "type" he doesn't do anything and is completely dispensable.

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 13, 2010, 10:34:19 AM PDT
Brit says:
B: This wasn't something, as far as I recall, that I was ever taught about, or that was ever discussed. I would suspect that most Christians wouldn't be able to even identify who Melchizedek is. There isn't anything, I don't think, that is essential to the overall Christian scenario that has to do with him, nor is he theologically very important in general. Except to this particular idiosyncratic theology of Hebrews. But even there, I think the general interpretative approach would be more to take Melchizedek as a "type" of Jesus. I have noticed that some specific, generally not mainstream, Christian groups seem to make him more important or get excited about him, but I've seen that entirely on the internet and not actually encountered it. That probably doesn't really clear things up, but that's basically all I've got.

S: Oh. Well, if you can't figure it out, I'm sure there aren't many Christians around who could explain it coherently. Maybe none.

B: Maybe. But what do I know? I couldn't really figure out any of even the basic teachings and principles. I maintain it's because they don't make any sense, but...

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 13, 2010, 11:54:46 AM PDT
ColdShot says:
I would have kept it to myself.
------------------
Gee, that sounds just like another group who has been doing that for years....but their costume has protected them from exposure....

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 16, 2010, 2:31:22 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 16, 2010, 6:10:51 AM PDT
MRASELL says:
Melchizedek is a type of the priesthood of the Messiah (Ps. 110:4). He appears mysteriously, he is not given any genealogy as is usual with priests, then he disappears again. This timeless figure is a type of the Messiah who is eternal and is both a king and a priest (Zech. 6:12-13).

In reply to an earlier post on Aug 16, 2010, 9:31:46 AM PDT
Sarah says:
mrasell: Melchizedek is a type of the priesthood of the Messiah (Ps. 110:4). He appears mysteriously, he is not given any genealogy as is usual with priests, then he disappears again.

Sarah: He's not a Jew. Does the Tanakh give genealogies for Gentiles? Why would it?

mrasell: This timeless figure is a type of the Messiah who is eternal and is both a king and a priest (Zech. 6:12-13).

Sarah: He's not a timeless figure. He's a dead Gentile priest and Jesus is a dead Jew who was never king and could never be a priest. Nobody who qualifies to be a king in the Davidic line can ever be a priest, because he would not have Levite ancestry. You are confused again.

Posted on Aug 17, 2010, 6:08:08 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Aug 17, 2010, 6:14:00 PM PDT
Very amusing tete-a-tete. Scintillating as ever, Sarah.

My tuppence: I doubt you guys will ever agree; it's straight-forward, logical sobriety versus esoteric, imaginative interpretation.
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