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Customer Discussions > Kindle Book forum

include a k-book with a hardcopy and i'll buy a kindle

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Initial post: May 8, 2009, 3:43:57 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 8, 2009, 4:08:31 PM PDT
Ian Lipsky says:
When i buy a hard copy of a book and get the kindle version for free or at least for just a dollar or two more, i'll consider buying the kindle. There's no way i'm going to spend $350 to $500 for something that just reads books AND the books are proprietary. When i buy a book now, i own it. I can give it away or sell it to someone or take it with me and unless i burn it, it'll work no matter where i go.

With the kindle, if i break the kindle, i now have to spend another $350 to $500 to read the book i already paid for. I dont really own the kindle books - amazon does. I'm just paying money to borrow the copy.

They might not be as portable, but i can get a whole pc or a netbook for the same price or less then the price of a kindle.

Amazon: include kindle copies when i buy a hard copy and that'll make the kindle much more attractive. Otherwise, as nice as some of the features are, i'll stick with paper books.

Posted on May 8, 2009, 3:49:10 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 8, 2009, 3:51:36 PM PDT
John Newton says:
I. Lipsky - I think you have a pretty good handle on some of the limitations of buying ebooks from Amazon. It's not realistic to expect free or super cheap books from Amazon however as they are a retailer of books not a publisher. The publisher is going to demand payment from Amazon for the books they sell and if Amazon can't at least cover their cost they won't be in business for long. If you want a buy one get one free deal you'll probably have better luck taking it up with the publisher.

BTW, why would you want the ebook and the paper book of the same book? To me one of the main advantages of ebooks is I no longer need the paper book. If it's a book better served by paper, something with a lot of graphics for example, I'll just stick with paper.

Posted on May 8, 2009, 4:15:13 PM PDT
AMZ Customer says:
Each to their own.
I as a K2 owner and soon to be KDX owner as well, luv not having the paper type of books to lug around or store anymore.
Happy Reading =)

Posted on May 8, 2009, 4:18:04 PM PDT
Ian Lipsky says:
Amazon is a huge retailer - they could put a lot of pressure on publishers. And if i buy a hard copy, the cost for amazon to give me a kindle copy is pretty minimal. If the publisher makes amazon pay twice that's a different story, but thats the part i'd like amazon to push to change. By buying the hard copy, i've in effect already paid for the content. So at that point if i wish to have a 2nd copy of the content, all i should have to pay for is whatever costs are associated with distributing a 2nd copy. And in this case the cost to download a megabyte or two is pretty close to zero. If amazon charged me a dollar, they'd be making a profit.

I understand why publishers are happy about a proprietary format since it makes it virtually impossible for people to pirate the books. But if they going to put that limitation on us, then they should at least not charge us twice for content we already paid for.

As for why i want both, 3 reasons:
1. like i said - if the my kindle were to go up in smoke, i have to buy another one or i cant access any of the books i've already paid for. And as unlikely as it seems - what happens if amazon goes out of business?
2. I just like having a physical book. I know it makes a bad environmentalist, but i like having a physical copy. I like having shelves full of books.
3. The number of kindle titles available isn't anywhere near close to the hard copy titles available. I'd be much more inclined to buy a kindle is i knew i could buy a hard copy now and if a kindle version came out later, get a copy of that.

To be perfectly honest - i'm not even sure if amazon included a free copy of the book in kindle format if i'd still get a kindle. I haven't actually used one. I'd have to use one for a little bit to see if it's as comfortable to read as holding a book. If it is, and if amazon included a free copy with a hard copy, I'm pretty sure i'd buy one. I really love the idea of an ebook and e-reader like the kindle. But i'm not willing to give up that much control over the content i've paid for.

In reply to an earlier post on May 8, 2009, 4:53:07 PM PDT
Ian Lipsky says:
Sugar, dont get me wrong. all the features that the kindle brings, including being able to carry around a 1000 books, sound great. I'd love to purchase all my technical manuals in kindle format.

I just value actually owning what I pay for rather then merely renting it. And thats what you are doing when you buy kindle books - renting them.

Posted on May 8, 2009, 5:45:32 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on May 8, 2009, 5:56:10 PM PDT
John Newton says:
"the cost for amazon to give me a kindle copy is pretty minimal"

Actually it's not. The cost to make an additional copy is minimal but not the cost to Amazon. As I understand it they pay the publisher a certain percentage of what the publisher sets as the list price. It's even been said they have to take a loss on some of the $9.99 best sellers due to the high list price set by the publisher. I know it's just an electronic file that can be duplicated for almost no cost in physical material terms but it's the publishers property and they will demand to be paid for each copy of that property. Amazon could try to work some deal with publishers but assuming Amazon sees ebooks as the future of books they wouldn't want to devalue them too much. I have seen at least one publisher offer a bundle deal on physical books plus ebooks so it is an idea that has at least been tried.

If you want to try an ebook go to a Target, Fry's, or Borders. They all sell the Sony and in he case of Fry's at least some other ereaders as well. It will give you some idea of what the experience is like but they will most likey have the readers locked down to a display so you won't get the full experience.

In reply to an earlier post on May 8, 2009, 6:53:45 PM PDT
Chipper says:
Agree with Lipsky. I own a first and second generation Kindle and love to use it. I can read it while exercising but cannot handle a real book with turning pages, etc. It is so convenient and easy to use. However, I also would like a hard copy of the books I like the most. I like to let others read my books, but don't like lending my Kindle. Amazon should do whatever is necessary to make it work at an additional nominal price,

In reply to an earlier post on May 8, 2009, 7:55:41 PM PDT
Ian Lipsky says:
john you mis-understood - i meant merely the actually incurred costs to amazon to actually send me the kindle copy. I meant in my original post that amazon should put pressure on the publishers to allow them to give out a free ecopy when someone buys hard copy.

Posted on May 8, 2009, 10:36:43 PM PDT

If Amazon gave you the e-book for free with each hardcover, then what about those people who want the hardcover but have no use for an e-book? They'd be complaining that they're paying for an e-book that they don't want.

Apparently, you aren't part of the target demographic for the Kindle.

Posted on May 8, 2009, 11:12:28 PM PDT
Ian Lipsky says:
First you assume that amazon would increase the price of the hardcopy. I said if amazon wants to cover the minimal costs for proving the ecopy (again assuming they can convince the publisher to allow them to give out a copy) then amazon charging $1 for those that wish the ecopy is certainly reasonable.

There's no reason why the people who dont want the ecopy should have to pay any more.

In reply to an earlier post on May 9, 2009, 6:31:57 AM PDT
Blue Goddess says:
By your logic, Amazon should also send you a copy of a paperback when it comes out, after you've bought a hardback, for a reduced cost, or better yet, free. After all, you've already paid for the content when you bought the hardback, right? Yeah, I know, there's not as much cost involved in an e-book versus a paperback, but honestly, the publishers don't see it that way. To them, a copy is a copy, no matter what form it takes. They are in it to make money on each "copy" sold, which is why you can't take your hardback receipt in to a bookstore and get a deal on a paperback when it comes out. If you want it on paperback, you pay for it again.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm all for your idea, honestly I am. As a matter of fact, I have seem some movies that come with a digital format for a few extra dollars, so I think it might be possible. Someone just has to get the publishers to see it would be beneficial. I sincerely hope they do, because like you, I have some books (not all) that I still want to collect in hardback, continuing series, stuff like that.

If you like classics, there are millions of free books on the net that you can get for your kindle. Of the 400 books on my kindle, only about 30 or 40 of them are books I bought from Amazon that I will lose if my kindle dies. The rest were free, either because they are public domain, or they were given by the authors as a promotion to gain readers. You can certainly own a kindle and never ever buy an e-book form Amazon.

In reply to an earlier post on May 9, 2009, 10:47:04 AM PDT
Chris Combs says:
"With the kindle, if i break the kindle, i now have to spend another $350 to $500 to read the book i already paid for."

With a hardcover library, if I lose it in a fire, I'll have to spend well more than $350-$500 to read the books I've already paid for.

In reply to an earlier post on May 9, 2009, 2:45:36 PM PDT
B. Caruso says:
I hear what you are saying and it would be nice, and an incentive, if for a couple of dollars more (minimal additional cost ideally) you'd get the paper and digital copies- kind of the way some DVDs now have the DVD and they also come with the license to download a digital copy via itunes. Only I'd think with kindle it would be more of an incentive...for me anyway.

In reply to an earlier post on May 9, 2009, 3:11:10 PM PDT
Ian Lipsky says:
chris: But i have some control over that. Fire don't usually start sponatenously. electronics though die all the time from use.

and it doesn't change the bottom line - you dont really own the ecopy. You are renting it. And i dont mind renting movies from blockbuster or netflix, i do mind renting books. Especially at $10 or more a pop.

In reply to an earlier post on May 9, 2009, 3:15:44 PM PDT
Ian Lipsky says:
Blue G: I think eventually the book publishers will face the same problem the music industry is facing. They'll either have to bow to technology, or get screwed by it. I buy my MP3's when if find them for a price i want. But honestly, if the RIAA had it's way and DRM'ed everything (assuming they'd even agree to digital downloads) i would go get it illegally.

I think the same thing will eventually happen to ebooks when they start to get more popular. If the publishers are reasonable, then i think the readers will be reasonable. I dont mind paying an extra dollar or two to get an ecopy. I wont pay more then that though since i think a dollar or two is more then fair. Hell if amazon charged $2 extra, amazon could keep a dollar and the publishers could keep a dollar and they'd both be making more money off of it.

Hopefully eventually some of the publishers will realizes this. Hopefully.

Posted on May 9, 2009, 8:21:02 PM PDT
DocJered says:
How about this: buy the K2 and get $359 download credit which can be used to offset the download price for any hardcover books you buy which are also available in Kindle format... it would be a way of introducing new and more people to the kindle world, would increase sales, and benefit brick and mortar publishers. Besides, when a brick and mortar publisher sells a book to a library, how many hundred people read the book? They need to get real with the ebook, particularly since Kindle format is proprietary, and give us both or one for a discount or at least for awhile!!!!

In reply to an earlier post on May 9, 2009, 8:34:58 PM PDT
Andy R says:
Actually, I would love to be the other way around. I value the Kindle for its portability and long battery life vs a netbook. My eyes do not get as tired as they do reading a computer screen. Must be the flicker. The point is, I can download quickly a book, read it and maybe it would turn out to be so fabulous I would like to by a printed copy for reference in exchange. Is that possible now?

Posted on May 9, 2009, 8:39:54 PM PDT
DocJered says:
No it isnt, but why not? Buy a $9.99 download and have a 30 day opportunity to buy the hardback for $8.99 discount? Again, I ask, why is what we ask more unreasonable than to expect an author to allow a library to buy a book for discounted retail and lend the book to hundreds of readers???

Posted on May 9, 2009, 10:11:29 PM PDT

When you said a nominal charge, I was thinking ten cents or thereabouts, the amount that Amazon bills you when you e-mail an e-book that you got from some other place to appear on your Kindle.

Secondly, I'm not sure you understand the difference between "buy" and "rent." You used the example of renting a DVD from Blockbuster. Yes, if I rent it, I have to bring it back or I have to pay extra. If I buy a DVD, I can keep it as long as I want, play it as many times as I want. This is exactly what I can do with the Kindle books.

You say that if the Kindle breaks, I can't read my Kindle books? Yes, but the same thing would happen if I broke my DVD player or TV set. Take a look at the Amazon video on demand if you are unclear as to the difference between "buy" and "rent." I can rent The Dark Knight for 3.99, but if I want to buy it, I have to pay 14.99.

You say that the publishing industry will face the same problem the music industry has. I really don't know what you're talking about. Is it all the illegal copying and sharing? That came about because it's so easy to rip the MP3 files from a CD. It's because it's so easy that the iPod was a hit. People could play their favorite songs from their CD collections. I haven't heard of anybody making illegal copies of Kindle books.

Posted on May 9, 2009, 10:14:40 PM PDT

It's very rare indeed for a library book to be checked out hundreds of times. Most library books spend their whole lives sitting on the shelf, and if they are very popular might be checked out ten to twenty times.

In reply to an earlier post on May 9, 2009, 11:07:34 PM PDT
Ian Lipsky says:
Nominal charge to me means amazon can still make a little money but something small enough that i still think it's fair to me. so 1 or 2 dollars would fall under that for me. I'd be happy buying a hardcopy and getting a kindle copy for an extra buck or two.

And when i say rent - i mean that you are tied to amazon. It's not like you can take your ebook and read it on another machine. With the dvd when i buy it, i dont have to buy specifically a sony dvd player just because it's a sony movie. I can play it on any dvd player, including my pc. I can even rip the contents if i choose to and then play it back on pretty much anything. With a kindle book though, you are tied to amazon. What happens if for some reason amazon decides to stop making the kindle, and yours breaks. Then what?

as for the music industry - i dont think the problem is the copying and sharing. I think its the music industry just not dealing with the fact that things change. Rather then freaking out over people 'stealing' music, they should have just come up with a convenient way for people to legally download music. They haven't done much to stop music sharing but they have done a great job of making themselves and the music industry look like villains. If they had instead just offered a way to download and pay for music from the beginning, i think most people would have done that.

If you give people a fair system, most people will act fairly. I say most - some will not. And you just have to accept that some are going to be bad.

I think the same is true with ebooks. I think as long as you treat people fairly most of them will act fairly. Those that dont probably wouldn't have bought the book anyhow.

Right now amazon wants it both ways - it's a closed system so i'd be tied to amazon, but i also dont get a hard copy. And under those terms, i'm not getting a kindle. Either make it an open format so i can read the ebook on other things, or give me a way to get a hardcopy as well.

Oh, Andy Rich - for the flicker, see if you can increase the refresh rate for the display. I have the same problem you do if there's any screen flicker. Increasing the refresh rate (if you can) usually reduces or eliminates flicker.

Posted on May 10, 2009, 1:06:46 AM PDT
Guede Nimbo says:
I would really like a double feature, but not for all the books just a buy in option say for 3-10 dollars depending on the publisher.
Some books I really would like a real copy of to thumb through or lend out.
I would not do this with most books, just a few like my favorite series just to keep it complete ect...
Mostly I would use this for text books though, I really would buy all of my text books through amazon, pay an additional 20-50 dollars for a kindle copy and than keep the real copy at home for reference later in my library.
I never throw away/sell back any college books, I keep them all you never know when they will be of use.

Posted on May 10, 2009, 4:02:42 AM PDT
Alex Dowdle says:
It was kind of said above, but could have been said much differently: If Amazon included a free Kindle download with the sale of every hardcopy book (immediately, or if/when the Kindle version became available), all of the people that don't own a Kindle would complain about paying for a service they aren't using, and demand a discount for getting JUST a hardcopy version. YOU or I may not do that, but a very significant portion of the clientele base would. So there's no viable way for Amazon not to charge for each version separately without upsetting many customers.

I've had a Kindle 1.0 for about a year now, and have bought close to 100 books on it, which, with the savings of a few dollars on each book, has paid for the Kindle. It IS as easy to read as a regular book, if not easier due to not losing bookmarks, not being odd sizes, etc. Also, I'm a submariner in the Navy, and it is awesome to take 20-30 brand new books to sea with me on deployment without filling up an extra seabag to do it! Prior to the Kindle, I owned close to 1500 physical books. Since the Kindle, I havne't bought a single physical book (for myself).

My only real complaint is not the separate charge for a Kindle book. It's that I wish I could share my Kindle books with my friends. I can buy another Kindle for my wife, and share all my books with her, which is fine. But I can't share with a friend's Kindle without both Kindles being on the same account (and credit card). I wish Amazon would develop like a friend's kindle network thing, where a closed group of 3-10 friends can share kindle books back and forth. I'd even pay a one time fee to be able to share my books with my best friends that have kindles. I understand about not sharing them freely, because then they would sell one copy of each book, which would show up on an FTP site and all kindle users would get them. But limited and controlled sharing should be developed, to simulate the ability to give or loan a paperback to a friend.

Posted on May 10, 2009, 6:08:35 AM PDT
Sara says:
What would happen if amazon stopped making the Kindle and mine broke?? The same thing that happens when there is a fire or flood or anything else that causes you to lose a large amount of start over. What happens if iTunes goes under and that program shuts down?? I have hundreds of dollars of music on there...and we have three iPods that we've bought to play those if it went under...we'd be pissed....and we'd hope most of it was currently on the ipods....and we'd have to start over. Thats the chance you take and the price you pay for the convienience of having all your books (or songs, or movies, or games or whatever) on a portable device.'s a chance worth taking when your life is as mobile as mine (military wife) or when you travel a lot in general (hello luggage restrictions, books and cd's weigh a LOT) or when you spend a lot of time waiting in lines or at offices or on trains/metros or .....if you just like's a chance you take. And if it's a chance you aren't willing to take, fine. No one is making you, but for's worth it. Because when we're moving again, or traveling again, or waiting somewhere again and I can't access my shelves and shelves of paper books I love that I can reach into my purse and there in one small package is a whole library of genres for me to choose from.

In reply to an earlier post on May 10, 2009, 2:09:47 PM PDT
Or a flood, or a hurricane. . .

There are lots of ways paper books can be destroyed. And I don't know about you, but for the last few years, the paper books I've bought - paperback AND hardback - are so poorly put together that they fall apart after one or two readings. Not exactly permanent. And no publisher or bookseller will replace them for free.

And why stop with just a free e-book with a hardback? Why not free paperback, large print, braille and audio copies as well? Oh, and maybe a couple of translations, just in case. . .
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Discussion in:  Kindle Book forum
Participants:  196
Total posts:  832
Initial post:  May 8, 2009
Latest post:  Apr 24, 2016

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