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Customer Discussions > Politics forum

You really want universal healthcare?


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Showing 26-48 of 48 posts in this discussion
Posted on Jun 8, 2012, 9:30:37 PM PDT
Georgedc says:
Yes!

Universal Healthcare is a RIGHT in every Industrialized country except for the US.

USA = SHAME

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 9, 2012, 6:54:18 PM PDT
"why wouldn't I be able to sue for malpractice?"

Poor DEEZUS...let me know if you know anyone that was able to sue the govt and succeeded without spending their whole life fighting them. I'm sure there are rare occurrences, but it's the exception, no the rule.

"If the cops or firefighters mess up, I can sue them. They have no competition and they're supplied by the government. "

I have a friend who's husband died because of negligence in the VA. She tried to sue but was unable to...and she would have had a case in the private sector.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 9, 2012, 6:56:37 PM PDT
"Universal Healthcare is a RIGHT in every Industrialized country except for the US."

I'll bet their 'rights' are being violated in Greece right now. Who's paying for their healthcare now?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012, 12:37:03 PM PDT
Useful Idiot says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012, 12:38:00 PM PDT
Useful Idiot says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012, 12:40:00 PM PDT
Useful Idiot says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012, 12:42:14 PM PDT
Useful Idiot says:
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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012, 12:45:52 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012, 12:46:08 PM PDT
DEEZUS says:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/dayton-news/va-paid-8-families-in-death-lawsuits-1341847.html

Posted on Jun 11, 2012, 1:02:25 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 11, 2012, 1:05:23 PM PDT
Bob Bykowski says:
It works in a modified form in Massachusetts, it works for other European industrialized countries, it's a blessing for those of us who can't get private coverage because of pre-existing health conditions...yes, I vote "aye". But it won't happen due to lobbyists who represent the greed of insurance companies and pay off politicians to represent their interests. Not to mention the way it is misrepresented to the public at large.

And if health care is not a right, then what is ? A person has the right to be as healthy as possible and receive adequate medical care when needed. It's fundamental and basic. Screw whatever the Constitution says or doesn't say.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012, 1:23:16 PM PDT
It sounds to me like you friend had a fool for a lawyer. I worked for years as a medical provider for the VA system. Under the Federal Torts Claims Act as well as Veteran's Administration policy, I kept a stack of Section 1151 forms in my desk drawer so patients could start the process. If the VA rejected the suit, it gets escalated to a federal court under the FTCA.

In some ways, it's easier to sue the VA than it is to sue a hospital system. The government can't appeal the case away until death the way a corporate entity or individual with deep pockets can.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012, 7:07:42 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 11, 2012, 7:10:54 PM PDT
Intrepid says:
I want single payer administration with insurers bidding for contract coverage instead of the mess we have now. It does not mean the end to all insurance.

Your proposal says nothing about how to fund the program.
Nothing about competition or incentivizing quality of care.
No one in the field would want to support it and no one has to.

It's not how other nations have done it well. Some of the better implementations like Germany, Japan, and Taiwan have kept private insurers in the equation. They still need to tweak the payment streams but their costs are about 1/3 lower than the US delivery system.

Cuba's system is not nearly as good as Michael Moore pretended it to be. Neither is China's (no safety net left) nor Russia's. Care is never free. I help provide health care for the poor and I assure you health care as a "right" is sheer nonsense and such fatuous verbiage always will be such - because it requires services and materials that are not free. *Everything costs* and we need to find means to pay for it even if our doctors donate some of their time. Which they cannot do 100% of the time. In fact, the well meaning volunteer staff clinics don't do nearly as good a job as our full time nonprofit in continuity of care. Some even wanted to send their chronic patients to us for care. They know their limits.

You still need to pay people as nurses, medical records clerks, front desk, billers, lab techs, custodians, etc. You still have consumables and vaccines to buy. Rent or mortgage to pay. Utilities and insurance. It is a business. Just one that also has heart. But a business all the same.

Note: We already have the National Health Service Corp that provides loans that can be forgiven for working in rural areas or poverty stricken urban areas. You need to go back to the drawing board and start completely over. It is much more complex than you think. Start with market supply vs. demand and then the quality you want to incentivize. It's not guaranteed and takes both money and effort.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 11, 2012, 7:25:00 PM PDT
Intrepid says:
WhoDat - if a case is egregious, the government does not necessarily contest the case. They settle many if not most of their OB cases even though the doctor did nothing wrong!. But in non-Obstetrics cases > 80% of cases that are claimed have been found on independent review to not have merit. Not all deaths are preventable. People get sick. They sometimes have really poor bodies or have neglected their health and they die while others would not have.

Example: a diabetic who does not follow diet and medication recommendations and has a glycosylated hemoglobin (HbA1c) of 8.0% has a 70% higher risk of going blind than one with a HbA1c of 7.0%. I have some who have a HbA1c of 5.7%. I also have one gentleman who says he feels fine and refuses to change his diet or take medications with a HbA1c of 9.2% despite having seen our clinical social worker and two dietitians for counseling for his denial. It's his fault if he goes blind or has renal failure - we've told him repeatedly, gently, strongly and in between - all the right things and even linked him with a counselor who is a diabetic as well. He does not want to change and refuses to use insulin so whose fault is that?

Solutions to malpractice cost: Some HMO's like Kaiser and France as a national system have contract mandated arbitration and their litigation costs are 1/3 that of the private sector in the USA.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012, 7:42:41 AM PDT
Useful Idiot says:
*And if health care is not a right, then what is ? A person has the right to be as healthy as possible and receive adequate medical care when needed. It's fundamental and basic. Screw whatever the Constitution says or doesn't say.

If a person has a right to health care then the FDA and AMA have to go because they are barriers to people getting the treatments they might want or the people they want treating them. A right is simply the use of a natural ability. A right does not include placing an obligation on another person.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012, 7:46:21 AM PDT
Useful Idiot says:
*Cuba's system is not nearly as good as Michael Moore pretended it to be. Neither is China's (no safety net left) nor Russia's. Care is never free. I help provide health care for the poor and I assure you health care as a "right" is sheer nonsense and such fatuous verbiage always will be such - because it requires services and materials that are not free. *Everything costs* and we need to find means to pay for it even if our doctors donate some of their time. Which they cannot do 100% of the time. In fact, the well meaning volunteer staff clinics don't do nearly as good a job as our full time nonprofit in continuity of care. Some even wanted to send their chronic patients to us for care. They know their limits.

In truth the best way to get care to as many people as possible is removing barriers and dealing with costs. We did not always have the health care system we have now and there was health. There are people that know the business and what are the most cost effective ways of caring for those who can't take care of themselves.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012, 7:50:26 AM PDT
Useful Idiot says:
*Example: a diabetic who does not follow diet and medication recommendations and has a glycosylated hemoglobin (HbA1c) of 8.0% has a 70% higher risk of going blind than one with a HbA1c of 7.0%. I have some who have a HbA1c of 5.7%. I also have one gentleman who says he feels fine and refuses to change his diet or take medications with a HbA1c of 9.2% despite having seen our clinical social worker and two dietitians for counseling for his denial. It's his fault if he goes blind or has renal failure - we've told him repeatedly, gently, strongly and in between - all the right things and even linked him with a counselor who is a diabetic as well. He does not want to change and refuses to use insulin so whose fault is that?

I did hear a speech from a local Diabetes doctor who was dedicated to helping people and he kept taking pay cuts to go up the chain of the disease. He created a diet lesson plan that can educate kids how to eat right to lower the chance of getting the disease. Texas officials of both parties tried to keep the lessons out of the schools because the disease is an 80 billion dollar industry. I think there is something to desire to treat rather than cure because there is no money in curing or proeventing diseases.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012, 8:01:37 AM PDT
"Not all deaths are preventable. People get sick. They sometimes have really poor bodies or have neglected their health and they die while others would not have. "

I knew this guy. He was young. He was not sickly but had a family history of heart disease. He was having issues and went to see one of the VA doctors and that doctor did not order the normal tests that need to be done on people with symptoms of heart problems. I referred his wife to a lawyer after she told me that she was not able to get help within the VA. I don't know what has happened since then. She was so distraught after losing her husband (they were both in their early thirties with 2 young children under 5) that I'm not sure if she had the strength to take on a lawsuit after all of the difficulties she had early on.

Posted on Jun 12, 2012, 8:03:15 AM PDT
Bob says:
Yes.

I also think private insurance should be able to compete in the free market and provide extended coverage over the basic universal plan.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012, 8:16:58 AM PDT
There is no statute of limitations on filing a Section 1151 claim, unlike the 2 year window in which one can file a lawsuit through the courts. Of course, since lawyers cannot charge people for handling a Section 1151, there are a lot of unscrupulous ones who will not make a sincere effort to help a widow or widower fill out the claims.

Her own family physician or other accredited doctors' written opinion that there is reasonable belief that a good medical standard of care was not followed is all that is needed to start the 1151 process.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012, 9:09:45 AM PDT
Thanks for this info PF!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012, 9:26:09 AM PDT
ignatov -- "Just remove the profit motive"

Do you really think doctors and nurses will work for whatever the govt feels is fair? People become docs to help people but also to earned a comfy living. That means profit motive!!!!

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012, 9:30:03 AM PDT
Useful Idiot says:
*Do you really think doctors and nurses will work for whatever the govt feels is fair? People become docs to help people but also to earned a comfy living. That means profit motive!!!!

We can look at more than those in the front line but all the people in the industry. A small percent of what is spent actually goes to those people. Something like 11% of medicare goes to doctors. We can look at ways to standardize insurance claims. We can look at ways to lower legal liabilities.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 12, 2012, 10:06:42 AM PDT
Many docs dont accept medicare patients for a reason. Good docs should be able to charge whatever they wants for their services. Sames goes for all other professionals. If someone is willing to pay then so be it, but govt should not say someone is being paid too much. This of course only applies to those paying out of pocket or private insurance.
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This discussion

Discussion in:  Politics forum
Participants:  20
Total posts:  48
Initial post:  Jun 8, 2012
Latest post:  Jun 12, 2012

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