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Customer Discussions > Politics forum

Well will you look at this?


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Showing 1-25 of 195 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Mar 31, 2012 4:14:22 PM PDT
DEEZUS says:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331,0,250481.story

As the Trayvon Martin controversy splinters into a debate about self-defense, a central question remains: Who was heard crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot?

A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.

-----------------------------------------------

I suppose the rest of George's story is probably true though. People usually only tell one lie.

Posted on Mar 31, 2012 4:50:40 PM PDT
This thing is a comedy.

Martin asks Zimmerman: "Why are you following me?"

Zimmerman: "There's been a bunch of burglaries around here, and I don't recognize you as living around here."

Zimmerman asks Martin: "What are you doing here?"

Martin: "I'm staying at my Dad's house. It's over there at '123 Plain St.' "

This thing looks like a big comedy of errors. It looks like it was easily avoidable.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012 4:58:27 PM PDT
E.T. says:
How much more can the press do to ensure that Zimmerman can not get a fair trial?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012 5:00:23 PM PDT
DEEZUS says:
well...it does poke a hole in his story. a trial where there is only truth is kinda like a fair trial.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012 5:02:16 PM PDT
E.T. says:
In court, the defense would have the opportunity to question this witness and his methods. In the press, it's all one-sided. Sorry Deez, this is bad.

Posted on Mar 31, 2012 5:10:10 PM PDT
Funny the witnesses say it was not like that.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012 5:13:58 PM PDT
DEEZUS says:
witnesses vs. science...hmmm

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012 5:25:17 PM PDT
E.T. says:
Neither matters unless Zimmerman has the opportunity to question them. You know all of this Deezus. Don't let the crazies take away your God-given common sense.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012 5:32:52 PM PDT
Intrepid says:
What happened to the sweet tea in this sad event? A 17 year old armed with a 22 oz cup would not seem a threat worthy of deadly force to me. Skittles on the other hand, are sour, noxious, round things, second only to Turkish Delight in being non-food things eaten.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012 5:36:51 PM PDT
Lonya says:
How is posting a story on a voice identification experts statment bad?
How does it compare in terms of badness with people in the press and here on this forum stating with certainty that the voice is Zimmerman's. And they aren't saying it may be Zimmerman - they are posting it here as fact. Is that bad?

As far as questioning the witness is concerned, we are not judges and we are not a jury. We are spectators forming opinions based on the information available to us. So again, what is bad about having more information upon which to form an opinion?

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012 5:40:18 PM PDT
Lonya says:
"Neither matters unless Zimmerman has the opportunity to question them. "

He will, if he is indicted which is not certain.
What we do know for certain is that Martin will not has the opportunity to question them.
We know for certain that he is not around to give a voice sample to be tested against the tape.

How is it lacking in common sense to post a link to an article containing the opinion of someone trained in voice recognition - assuming he is?

At least Deezus posted a link. That puts him a cut above most of the people here posting speculation about who said what, who was injured, etc.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012 6:03:47 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 31, 2012 6:04:18 PM PDT
E.T. says:
Posting a story on voice identification is no worse than those posting that the voice is Zimmerman's except that the "expert" lends verisimilitude to the story when we know nothing about the truth of the matter.

Zimmerman is being tried in the court of public opinion. HIs chances of a fair trial are growing smaller by the moment.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012 6:32:02 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 31, 2012 6:32:15 PM PDT
DEEZUS says:
He's not the only expert...there are more in the story, but I didn't want to c/p the whole thing. There isn't an expert who says that the voice is Zimmerman's. They can't say for sure it's Martin's voice because he's dead. It's a two page story.

Posted on Mar 31, 2012 6:37:07 PM PDT
The media will always tell the the truth.

Posted on Mar 31, 2012 9:23:39 PM PDT
There is a bounty on Zimmerman's head - SOMEONE sooner or later will try to collect. What does this matter? He is a dead man.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012 9:50:14 PM PDT
Lonya says:
So lending versimilitude to a story is a bad thing?
Talking to the expert is the same as having Joe Blow on the street claimiing the voice is Zimmerman?
Since when did lending versimilitude become a bad thing?

How does one get to the truth of the matter?
People shouldn't post links on Amazon's discussion boards because this will harm Zimmerman's chances of getting a fair trial?
The press should withold any reporting until after a trial?
The court of public opnion has existed since the beginning of time.

I don't really understand this "I'm shocked, shocked to find out that there's gambling here" attitude and the suggestion that Deezus is acting recklessly is without foundation.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012 10:28:35 PM PDT
[Deleted by Amazon on Jan 1, 2013 6:57:24 PM PST]

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012 11:21:26 PM PDT
DEEZUS says:His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.

--------------------------

thanks for the interesting topic, deezus, but i ain't buying it.

1. The local news reported that early on in the case that Martin's dad first said it wasn't his son.

2. As stated in the article, he didn't have a sample of Martin's voice. He said the software gave a 48% match to Zimm (he thinks it should be 90%.) It is entirely unknown what Martin's match to be. 10% or 90% no clue. He claims he doesn't need Martin's sample.

3. It is quite impressive and convincing when the article says, "voice identification is "the main biometric tool" used to track international criminals, as well as terrorists.' Informative, but also prejudicial.

4. A second audio engineer said, "I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. "That's a young man screaming." First, he doesn't have any clue to the development of Martin's voice, but neither do I. One thing I do know is that the voice of someone in fear and a panic can easily grow higher in pitch. The voice has been described as crying. That is not like yelling, "pass the ball already."

5. An older witness said he saw martin on top of zimmerman. A 13 year old witness said he saw zimmerman (red shirt) on the ground before the shot. The police said zimm had grass stains on his back and an injury to the back of his head. The paramedics confirmed a superficial laceration to the back of Zimm's head (I expect we have to wait for a trial to find out if this is true.) In the the police video at about :50 you can see one officer looking at the back of zimm's head. At exactly 1:07 you can see the crown of Zimm's head and you can see the crown looks cleaner shaven and there is a vertical mark in the middle of it.

6. Other than the gun shot wound. I have not read of any other injuries to Martin. No facial or head injuries or marks.

7. I point out 5 and 6 because... why would Martin be crying out for help? Too many people are biased by the picture of him as a 13 yr old. He is not a boy, but is a young man who was at least 6' tall and most certainly heavier than 140.

The yelling was panicked crying out for help. Why would Trayvon be the one yelling?

I believed Zimmerman is responsible for manslaughter. But I don't believe Martin was the one yelling.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 31, 2012 11:23:32 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Mar 31, 2012 11:26:11 PM PDT
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In reply to an earlier post on Apr 1, 2012 2:24:30 AM PDT
DEEZUS says:
electroshock DOES work. there's no denying that it works, it's just not the preferred treatment.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 1, 2012 2:25:21 AM PDT
DEEZUS says:
The article (nor I) ever said that Martin did the shouting. It said that Zimmerman did not. It also said that the shouting came before the shot.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 1, 2012 4:40:46 AM PDT
RE: well...it does poke a hole in his story. a trial where there is only truth is kinda like a fair trial.

It pokes a second hole, IMO.

In a scenario with so much conflicting information and no credible eyewitnesses to what actually happened, voice recognition could turn out to be an important piece of the puzzle.

But the other hole that indicates Zimmerman was almost surely lying about at least part of the story is the part about having his (shaved) head bashed repeatedly on concrete. He may have gotten a bloody nose and had it cleaned up; we don't know for sure. He may have had his head rapped in some manner against concrete a time or two; we don't know for sure. But there's no way he could have had his head bashed repeatedly on concrete for a minute -- how many times can you crack or drag someone's head against concrete in a minute and not leave marks that are easily visible and obvious? -- in the manner he described in his story.

Something did not add up there, given the video, and now we have a little more with the voice recognition.

So I'm interested, as so many are, in what a real investigation will turn up.....and I'm keeping a somewhat open mind about the goings-on that night. I think it's clear that Zimmerman, as a self-appointed watchperson, had any business following Martin, especially after the dispatcher made him aware that he should not......but I think it's possible that Martin also played some part in the escalation that got out of hand.

But I'm also pretty sure that Zimmerman was lying, at least in parts of his story. A cop may have been looking at the back of his head, but that head looked clean when it should have been torn up. Blood and marks from numerous lacerations to the head isn't something that cleans up like a bloody nose.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 1, 2012 4:41:56 AM PDT
MisterTee says:
Everyone knows Zimmerman was lying, film at eleven.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 1, 2012 5:38:29 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 1, 2012 5:41:21 AM PDT
Jon says:
Hey, George Zimmerman is a former magistrate judge's son, they wouldn't have any reason to lie, right?
And there couldn't possibly be anything disturbing in Zim's closed arrest record, huh? Nawww.

Apparently, this George Zim sees black people everywhere, even when they may not be there...
According to the recent Mother Jones review of Zimmerman's profuse (some might call them crank) 911 calls:

>"Three days later, he called to report two black teens in the same area, for the same reason. "[Juveniles] are the subjs who have been [burglarizing] in this area," he told the dispatcher.

>"And last month, on Feb. 2, Zimmerman called to report a suspicious black man in a leather jacket near one of the development's units. The resident of that townhouse, Zimmerman told dispatch, was a white male. Police stopped by to investigate, but no one was there, and the residence was secure."<

He eventually found a sure-fire way to detain one of these wayfaring black strangers for the police to investigate further.
What a guardian of safety and general well-being. Wadda guy.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 1, 2012 5:41:27 AM PDT
MisterTee says:
Holy Darkie !

Does *your* bartender know how to make a Holy Darkie ?

Only two directions. Find a darkie, then shoot him multiple times.
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Discussion in:  Politics forum
Participants:  18
Total posts:  195
Initial post:  Mar 31, 2012
Latest post:  Apr 2, 2012

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