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God's plan


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Showing 1-25 of 216 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Feb 28, 2013, 4:18:40 PM PST
c--kuta says:
ok long story short, a friend's girlfriend lost their child, a full term baby.

as a parent the last thing you want in life is to outlive your children, especially before they begin life. personally i wouldnt know what to say however there is something that i thought was inappropriate and that was "God's plan."

maybe im not religious enough to understand what the hell that actually is supposed to mean nor understand how or what sort of comfort a person is suppose to get from that but i thought it was incredibly rude and indeed would have angered me if i was the one who lost a child.

again maybe it is my lack of faith, but if you tell me it is a part of God's plan, it sounds like you are saying God took my child from me. it is a test from God? that sounds incredibly cruel.

am i the only one who feels this way?

Posted on Feb 28, 2013, 4:20:51 PM PST
Nope.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2013, 4:28:54 PM PST
Joe W says:
I remember my mother, who is religious, going off on someone who said that after she lost what was to be my sister. Even some of the religious agree with you.

Posted on Feb 28, 2013, 4:39:28 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 28, 2013, 4:41:24 PM PST
I understand. God does seem cruel sometimes. God allows horrible things happen to good people, innocent children, and animals, although He _could_ intervene.

I think saying "It was God's plan" or "It is God's will" to anyone in grief (for any reason) is insensitive.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2013, 5:46:27 PM PST
Amygdala says:
That was awful; I'm so sorry.

When I was a fundie, my pastor's wife had the same experience; lost her baby and considered it "God's plan." I was dumbfounded, but didn't want to challenge her reasoning because of her tragedy. Later, I learned that there is a reasoning that is similar to the "life is not fair" position. Those who believe in "God's plan", thought I certainly can't speak for all, of course, usually mean that while there are injustices, unfairness, tragedy and disappointments, that all will come out well in the end. This is usually followed with the martyr position that we are here, not for us, but to fulfill God's plan.

I don't believe this, as an atheist. However as a fundie, I absolutely believed it 100% and it gave me great comfort then.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2013, 6:32:11 PM PST
tokolosi says:
"I understand. God does seem cruel sometimes. God allows horrible things happen to good people, innocent children, and animals, although He _could_ intervene. "

"God" doesn't *allow* ANYTHING. It's nothing more than personal choices and random chance. Period.

Posted on Feb 28, 2013, 6:35:56 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 28, 2013, 6:36:59 PM PST
Saying "It is God's plan or will." is insensitive to those who have experienced a tragic loss. I feel like saying to someone who mutters such things "Can't you keep your god and religion agenda on mute even in times like this?"

It is an inane thing to say especially if a child has been perhaps kidnapped, raped and or murdered. Saying "It is God's plan" just rings so hollow and I immediately lose respect for that person's intellect, and fully realize their lack of empathy and their inhumanity. How dopey can one get?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2013, 6:36:38 PM PST
Astrocat says:
c---kuta. People die. Babies die. That's the way it goes. It's not part of any devious plan, it's just nature, pure and simple.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2013, 6:43:41 PM PST
c--kuta says:
umm, yeah agreed. wait, are you telling me that or are you just making a statement?

Posted on Feb 28, 2013, 7:26:51 PM PST
Rubedo says:
Someone also could have said, "God needed another flower in His garden."
That one completely blows my mind.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2013, 8:12:43 PM PST
Karen Jones says:
God does NOT kill babies, bad things happen and the first to get the blame is God. The person who said it was Gods plan was mistaken, they couldn't think of anything else to say. I'am sorry for the loss of the baby though.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2013, 8:14:09 PM PST
Astrocat says:
I'm saying there's no secret plan that some god or other is carrying out by having babies die. Death is part of the process of living.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2013, 8:23:51 PM PST
c--kuta says:
well yeah i know that. perhaps i wasnt clear but i attempted to put out that i do not believe. i am not religious. you do not need to convince me of anything.

Posted on Feb 28, 2013, 8:51:29 PM PST
That is rather rude to say. Sorry for the loss. Perhaps this person couldn't think of anything else to say? Judging from your post, it sounds like you have a distaste for religion/faith, but you surely don't think everyone of faith shares this same opinion, right?

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2013, 9:09:16 PM PST
c--kuta says:
i have no beef with faith. organized religion finds new ways to disgust me yes BUT i imagine it on some small scale it is harmless, for a lack of a better term.

what i was looking for was an explanation from a perspective i just dont hold. thanks.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2013, 9:31:02 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Feb 28, 2013, 10:34:31 PM PST
Elias says:
"maybe im not religious enough to understand what the hell that actually is supposed to mean nor understand how or what sort of comfort a person is suppose to get from that but i thought it was incredibly rude and indeed would have angered me if i was the one who lost a child. "

as a person of faith I sincerely doubt that such a thing is required by God. I do not believe that the person who told you that it was "God's plan" is being accurate. Sounds like a misguided attempt to explain a why of an event. I have faith in God but as I know Him in my relationship with Him, He did not want a parent to loose a child.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2013, 10:01:49 PM PST
Astrocat says:
c--- I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm telling you what I think is true. Take it or leave it.

In reply to an earlier post on Feb 28, 2013, 10:06:30 PM PST
Blu Boy says:
C,

I can tell you that you aren't the only one who feels this way. My wife and I lost our first child. It was the most horrible experience of my life without question.

For me it was no ones fault. Not my wife's, not mine, not the doctors. No one. It just happened and it really, really sucked. That's all there is to it. Often times we have to endure things that really suck; We don't suck, the situation does.

Posted on Mar 1, 2013, 9:30:45 AM PST
Last edited by the author on Mar 1, 2013, 9:31:25 AM PST
S. Friedman says:
Similar to "God's will" is the statement that "everything happens for a reason."

Though no specific deity is invoked by the statement, it carries the same implication that there was conscious forethought and intent.

Nature owes us nothing. As Blue said, things in life just suck sometimes. I don't see how it helps to add an extra layer of confusion by implying that some greater intelligence has purposely made it suck.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 1, 2013, 2:21:44 PM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
c---kuta says:

[am i the only one who feels this way ?]

I suppose similar questions could be asked whenever something bad happens.

Isn't that what faith really is ? Faith is believing in something no matter what happens.

Events like this can sometimes cause people to ask many deep questions about what they believe. The role of philosophy and religions which are philosophies is to help people discover those answers. To me there's a lot of value in finding those answers.

Life is cruel sometimes. The question is why. Sometimes the reasons are very clear. But other times they are not.

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 1, 2013, 2:27:16 PM PST
Amygdala says:
Jeff, I think there is something in us that wants to believe that in the event of tragedy, that it somehow makes sense. We want to put it in some category so we think we have control over our universe.

But we don't. Crap happens. It happens to everyone, randomly, and that's just the way life is.

We do the best we can, and get on with things. But it never "has" to make sense.

Posted on Mar 1, 2013, 2:54:38 PM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
Lucy in the Sky with Hedgehogs says:

[It happens to everyone, randomly, and that's just the way life is.]

Well that's the other extreme.

The unbeliever looks up at the constellations like the Pleiades and Orion and sees one gigantic coincidence.

But ancient cultures didn't see it that way. They saw great order and wisdom in the cosmos and they built their pyramids to match up with the movement of the constellations over very long time periods.

The statements attributed to Thoth / Hermes in The Hermetica are very eloquent and poetic at times. Thoth told of a vision he had where God created the universe from a sea of chaos. The natural laws that we observe represent the order that God imposed on chaos.

Thoth described the universe as a goddess named Destiny who governs the stars and the constellations of the Zodiac. The Zodiac in turn governs the affairs of us mortals. On the day we are born the position of the constellations will foretell our destiny during this incarnation.

Elisabeth Haich says something similar in her book 'Initiation'. She seemed to imply that the stars also predict the activities of animals and even plant life.

Astrology has a basis in reality I believe. I don't know how well it is understood today but I think there's a core of truth there.

All of this gets into the question of : "How much does God really know ?"

The Hermetica: The Lost Wisdom of the Pharaohs [Paperback]
Timothy Freke (Author), Peter Gandy (Author)

Initiation [Paperback] by Elisabeth Haich

In reply to an earlier post on Mar 1, 2013, 3:02:37 PM PST
Re OP: By no means are you the only one who feels that way. And the comment is simply silly: it can be shown that even if there is a god, and even if it has a plan, that there is no way to know what it is.

Posted on Mar 1, 2013, 3:14:41 PM PST
frogperson says:
I think that people say things like this because they have found comfort in that ignorance and they hope or assume you, too, will find the same comfort.

Jeff M: Why should we be interested in ancient cultures that saw silly pictures in the sky? We now know the laws that govern them and don't need to pretend gods control them.

Posted on Mar 1, 2013, 3:17:50 PM PST
Jeff Marzano says:
frogperson says:

[We now know the laws that govern them and don't need to pretend gods control them.]

As I said, for the unbeliever the universe is one gigantic coincidence.
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  36
Total posts:  216
Initial post:  Feb 28, 2013
Latest post:  Nov 25, 2013

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