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The Faith of Unbelief and The Problem of Evil


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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 28, 2012, 10:19:49 AM PDT
Art Franklin says:
Michael Altarriba says:
This: "They base their beliefs on general scientific observations and mathematical odds."

would seem to contradict this: "But you cannot argue that they base this belief on proof." if by "proof" you actually mean "evidence."

Art: Unfair! I used the word proof in response to Ashwood's definition of faith:

*faith
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing
2. belief that is not based on proof*

I agree with all the evidence you wrote, but remember I was talking about intelligent star-travelling life that may buzz by, but whatever.

Let's apply this important semantic change from 'proof' to 'evidence' to the frontal lobotomy fad. Egas Moniz was a neurologist and not a psychiatrist. On what evidence did he decide to drill holes in the heads of patients and inject alcohol? He published the findings in 1936 that "Their own assessment was that 35% of the patients improved greatly, 35% improved moderately and that in the remaining 30% there was no change. "

So on what evidence were tens of thousands of humans lobotomized over the next 35 years? Were doctors working off of current scientific knowledge that the procedure of shoving ice picks up noses was an improvement, or were they working off of a belief that these were good and valid procedures?

Did the patients and families that submitted to lobotomies have informed consent or did they have "1. confidence or trust in a person or thing" and "2. belief that is not based on proof"?

Posted on Jun 28, 2012, 10:47:09 AM PDT
Art Franklin says:
Here is a description of the status of psychiatry in general: http://www.examiner.com/article/the-barbaric-history-and-present-of-mental-health-care

This article was written by a mental health professional. Curiously, he uses the word "believe" about this field that is more science than religion:

"While many breathe a sigh of relief that the barbaric and antiquated methods of the past are a memory, contemporary thinking and methods have changed very little. Psychiatric medications have become so common that most laypeople, doctors, judges, and patients alike now believe that they are the only appropriate and relevant treatment for mental illness. So strongly believed is this idea that many argue that to not provide those medications is often considered harmful or inhumane to the patient."

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 28, 2012, 10:48:14 AM PDT
When I figure out a cure, I'll let you know. In the meantime, gotta go, there's 17 new posts I gotta reply to.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012, 10:28:14 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 30, 2012, 10:50:31 AM PDT
Ddms says:
I'm still waiting for that single example of God turning suffering into good, absent intervention by a human or other earthly being.
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In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012, 10:37:05 AM PDT
Ddms says:
Wake people up to what? Get their attention for what reason?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012, 10:38:17 AM PDT
Ddms says:
Eh?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012, 10:58:29 AM PDT
Astrocat says:
The Buddha clarified the fact that we cause our own suffering through attachment, through emotional desires. Detachment doesn't mean we cut ourselves off from other people, what it means is that we are no longer dependent on the fulfillment of desire for happiness.

So even though one may have pain, may have disease, may live in horrific conditions, suffering - dukkha - can be eliminated through cessation of desire.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012, 11:49:52 AM PDT
arpy you fu-unny

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012, 11:54:27 AM PDT
Hark ye...

I was walking down the street
Just the other day
When a guy walked up and said Hi
Hi
He was asking for donations
For some religous ship
And i turned and asked him why
He said "If you by this book from me,
I'll give you eternal life"
something which you won't forget
I said listen mister
"I've got my overalls,
theres enough life left in me yet"

I take drugs (drugs)
I like sex (sex)
I like looking at dirty pictures
I like lying in bed with fess

He then became persistant
So i turned around
And glared at that man goodbye
Bye bye
You see im not the violent type
But this guy he's just oblivious in my eyes
I then became objective
I said c'mon man dont give that full of ship
Ship
I said listen mister
"I've got my overalls,
theres enough life left in me yet"

I take drugs (drugs)
I like sex (sex)
I like looking at dirty pictures
I like lying in bed with fess

I take drugs (drugs)
I like sex (sex)
I like looking at dirty pictures
I like lying in bed with fess

Drugs (drugs) and sex (sex)
Dirty pictures
and fess

Drugs and sex
Woohooo
Dirty pictures
I like lying in bed with fess
Listen to me
You gotta believe when
I talk about my drugs buddy

The Radiators
Vintage 70s/80s oz rock

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 30, 2012, 12:09:00 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 30, 2012, 12:11:54 PM PDT
Bubba says:
The Radiators (live) - "Fess' song"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT53H1qj6hQ

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 1, 2012, 9:00:43 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 1, 2012, 9:02:27 AM PDT
Marcos says:
D. Thomas,

D.S. Clark doesn't get it. Probably has never seen true suffering. I am talking about children starving to death, thousands killed by a rival group, torture, etc. Plus there is plenty of suffering that does not involve humans. Animals die in horrible ways experiencing terrible suffering every day without any single human even being aware of it.

Suffering simply exists because it helped our ancestors to survive. I remember the news report about a child who did not have feeling. The story was that when the child fell asleep one night the family dog ate part of his/her hand. Obviously similar children who have normal feeling and experience pain when their dogs bite them at night simply smack them.

i.e., suffering wakes them to so they don't lose their fingers.
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Discussion in:  Religion forum
Participants:  54
Total posts:  561
Initial post:  May 26, 2012
Latest post:  Jul 1, 2012

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