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Showing 251-275 of 421 posts in this discussion
Posted on Jul 3, 2012, 10:26:48 AM PDT
Faithradha says:
Leone says: Genuine mentors are few, so I understand your caution at becoming involved with one. I wouldn't have myself, if I had not had several mystical experiences that led me to my sheikh and gave me verification that he was genuine and that he was my guide.

FR: What you say here totally resonates with me Leone. Before I 'MET' The Master (within my own BEing), I had no idea why I even needed them or how truly important they were... it was only after the Grace Bestowing Master Awakened my own dormant Kundalini energy that I realized how important THE Master actually is... and what their actual function is... which is not heaven but SELF Realization.
It has been said that we are all UNLIT Candles..., we carry this dormant divine Kundalini energy within us (at the base of the subtle spine), and that until we come into contact with a "LIT" Candle... in the form of The Grace Bestowing Master... our own divine power will remain dormant and unrealized.

This was my own experience... I was Awakened while in the physical presence of The Master, in a way which is unique to The True Master... and can not be duplicated by anyone who is NOT The Master. So Grace / Shaktipat Innitiaton IS the way... to far more than Heaven. In one divine moment I GOT what Gandhi meant when he said that he wished that more "Christians" understood just how great Jesus REALLY is... because they do not. I wholeheartedly agree.

Grace can be transferred from the Master to the Disciple in a number of ways... through the Mantra, through Direct Touch, or through the Master's Sankalpa (their will). Though it is most helpful to be in the physical presence of The Master, it is not necessary. The Master can Awaken a True Seeker from the other side of the world.
To underscore the importance of The Grace Bestowing Master it has been said by the great mystics that it would be easier to empty all the oceans of the world ... with a teaspoon... than to Realize what the True Master can grant in one Divine Instant.

For myself.. as I sat before The Master ... having no idea why I was really there... then in one instant I understood The Master, my own True SELF, and who/what Jesus, The Buddha, and Krishna actually were. The phrase ~ I AM The ONE ~ took on a whole new meaning which the finite dualistic mind could NEVER fathom by its own intellectual processing. This was true Revelation.

At first The Master let me believe that I had found them... it was not until later that it became clear that it was The Master's call .... who was simply waiting for the right moment to appear.


Leone says: My Sufi tradition is not a religion that one converts to; it's a state of being that one discovers -- some earlier than others. We're mystics of a particular orientation to God (or whatever term a person uses to mean "God" -- for us, the term is "Beloved"), and mystics are born mystics, just like creative people of other areas are born with their creative perspectives.


FR: Again we agree. My own non-dual spiritual path, Siddha Yoga, is a path of Grace which encompasses all the various yoga's within it ... Jnana, karma, kriya, hatha, kundalini, and bhakti ... so it is a Raja or all inclusive path. Siddha itself references a Perfected Being.

Such a path is not a religion or a belief system, but rather a non-dual path of Grace which reveals TRUTH Absolute, and deals with Transcendent Reality... so VERY different from dualistic religions.

My own Living Master, like Her own Master, draws from a number of different disciplines but mostly from non-dual Kashmir Shaivism.. (The Trika School) , as well as some non-dual Vedantic teachings.
Both these schools bring one, eventually, to the same place.... but while Vedantic goes 'over' the mountain.. Shaivism tends to go 'Through' the mountain. : ) Each Student then finds The Master which is correct for them.
The teachings of many non-dual Saints are embraced by more than one tradition... such as the great Sufi Master Hafiz..... who brings me to a state of shear ecstasy every time I Enter His Divine Tavern <VBG> . Jnaneshwar Maharaj, Patanjali, and Sai Baba of Shirdi (who left His body in 1918, and was claimed by both Moslem and Hindu followers), amongst others. Of course then we have Krishna... Aaaahhh Krishna...I AM such a Bhakti! If I were a Gopi I would assuradly by Radha. : )

~ ~ ~

A few of the "Heavy Hitters" in my own spiritual library are: Shankara's ~Crest-Jewel of Discrimination, (Vedanta Press),
The Sacred Power - A Seeker's Guide to Kundalini by Swami Kripananda, (SYDA),
The Triadic Heart of Siva by Paul Muller-Ortega (SUNY),
Nothing Exists That Is Not Siva ~ Commentaries on the Siva Sutra, Vijnanabhairava, The Gurugita, and Other Sacred Texts ~ by S. Muktananda (SYDA),
Spanda-Karikas ~The Divine Creative Pulsation ~ Translated by: Jaideva Singh (Motilal Banrsidass Publ. Delhi),
The Philosophy of Sadhana by Deba Brata SenSharma (forward by Paul Muller-Ortega (SUNY),
The Concise Yoga Vasistha by Swami Venkatesananda (SUNY) * The Yoga Vasistha is a unique work of Indian philosophy. It is highly respected for its practical mysticism.*

Then there is my personal favorite PLAY OF CONSCIOUSNESS ... the spiritual autobiography of Swami Muktananda. (SYDA) This was the book that literally spoke to me and brought "God" ALIVE for me, making "God" my constant companion.

What Muktananda is most known for is His Meditation Revelution. He has shown so many, both Western and Eastern how to Meditate on the Divine SELF.... and also shows how Grace is the key to Meditation.
Until The Master's Grace my meditations continually hit this wall. I could go so far, but no farther... THEN Grace changed everything, that wall fell away and Truth Absolute was Realized. Truly there is nothing like the Grace Bestowing Master.

~Santi ~

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 3, 2012, 10:44:02 AM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jul 28, 2013, 7:37:47 PM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 3, 2012, 11:17:33 AM PDT
Faithradha says:
Rubedo says: How many of you have a mentor or at least a meditation group you connect with?

FR: My own experience with meditation has been that BEFORE Shaktipat Innitiation by The Master and AFTER The Master's Grace Innitiation was more dramatic than Night and Day.
That innitial Grace Awakening created a SHIFT in perspective for me that is essential for SELF Realization.

Only AFTER that innitial Awakening does the Student's self effort and The Master's grace work together, as two wings of a bird, to bring one to Absolute TRUTH, SELF Realization.
Without that innitial SHIFT in perspective... from dual to non-dual, no amount of intellectual self effort could have brought me to this unique, Transcendent perspective.

The Grace Bestowing Master then for me has made ALL the difference. It is the karma of some seekers to find refuge in a sangham, a group of like spiritual devotees, while for others... once Grace has been realized... they may 'chose' to take up their own individual sadhana.. ALWAYS directed from within, and sometimes physically, by The Master.

It has been my own experience that when The Student is ready, The Master appears. When the Grace of the Student and the Grace of the Master meet... Amazing things happen. : )

Note: As long as one perceives The Master as somehow different and separate from one's own SELF... then they have yet to actually MEET The Master. It is not about just an "outer" or physical meeting, but an Inner, Divine Meeting. As long as one has an aversion to bowing to The Master... as though they are bowing to some "OTHER" individual.... again.. the Master has not been Realized. One should never bow to "OTHER" but to that ONE SELF which exists within BOTH the Master AND The Disciple.
~ Peace ~

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 3, 2012, 11:49:21 AM PDT
Faithradha says:
Rubedo says: The best mentor or guru can do nothing for you if you do not take the time to do the sitting yourself.

Nancy says: There are people who are devotional, who enjoy and need someone to look up to, someone to follow, and I see nothing wrong with that, but I am a goat, and not a sheep, so while I do have a teaching that I practice, and that teaching was given out by a "person", it is a very ancient teaching,

FR: I would add here that for me.. I saw no need to "sit " UNTIL The Master appeared. For me... before The Master I sat ... and nothing changed. However.. immediately after The Master's Initiation THEN Everything changed and all I wanted to do was SIT and bask in that Divine Love which was now possible to access.

So, for me The Master was the Key. That Grace alone set me ablaze because only then could I grasp the ultimate goal, which is SELF Realization. Without that glimpse of the Divine which only the Master can grant, I would have lost interest in meditation very quickly I am sure.
~ ~ ~

As for needing someone to "look up to" That is certainly not something a True Master promotes. In fact such a One discourages such a focus... instead continually directing us WITHIN to bask in the Love of our own Higher SELF.

So to focus on The Master while not recognizing that there is no difference between the two... can be quite harmful actually. What a True Master does is reveal our own TRUE SELF to us by mirroring back to us our own LOVE.
As my own Master's Master used to remind His Devotees...~ "God" dwells within you AS you. ~ So worship your own SELF, meditate on your own SELF.. which is the same in ALL.

IT is not so much that The Master gives us their Love but reveals that there is only ONE Love which we ALL Share. The Master's job is to reveal our own True SELF to us. One should never be dependent on another.
A good Master points out that the Disciple and The Master are a perfect TEAM. At some point the two merge into this ONE Love, this state of ONEness, where there is no real differentiation. The actual Divine Essence of ALL BEings and ALL Things is recognized.

The True Master has no interest in collecting followers but in turning Disciples into "God" also.
~ Peace ~

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 3, 2012, 11:52:18 AM PDT
Faithradha says:
B.D. says: It has become very difficult to even look at the NT anymore because of the damage done to Christianity by fundamentalist extremists.

FR: I hear you B.D. .. loud and clear. Then again... if one is not yet ready... that's just their karma. In time they too will realize what only
Grace can reveal. I like to remind myself... there but for the Grace of God go I. :0

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 3, 2012, 12:19:24 PM PDT
Astrocat says:
Thanks for your explanation, Baba. I think that Steiner's method might have worked in an earlier time, but that Montessori brought the new ways of education. That said, I agree that there is not "one, true" anything, be in in education, religion, governments, and so on. If Waldorf works for some children, then fine. If I were to be responsible for the education of my grandchildren and great-grandchildren, I would find a Montessori school. Different strokes.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 3, 2012, 12:21:32 PM PDT
Astrocat says:
Baba, that's one of the points Steiner makes that I really do heartily disagree with. I have not seen that to be true at all. In fact, the people I have known who learned to read at an early age are the most curious and the most open to new ideas. Those who did not learn to read, or learned badly, were more often the fundamentalists, because they were more easily indoctrinated and more fearful of not knowing enough to argue or present any differing opinions.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 3, 2012, 4:29:27 PM PDT
While I agree that Waldorf ecucation may not be right for everyone, as far as Steiner's *reasons* for the approaches to instruction that he favored--these would still hold true, since the basic nature of the human being has not changed drastically from then until now. As for what your grandchildren or great-grandchildren may have experienced with Waldorf, you have to remember that anyone can be exposed to an unripened (or over-ripened) teacher no matter the system.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 3, 2012, 5:26:28 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 3, 2012, 5:32:39 PM PDT
You are certainly free to disagree with Waldorf methods, however, I have to wonder if you have really understood Steiner's theories of human growth and development. You are making a strictly empirical argument: the people you have known who learned to read at an early age are the most curious and the most open to new ideas. That may certainly be true, but there are many other things that could explain why this is so. For example, some kids teach themselves to read simply because they are read to frequently and under the best of circumstances (a daily ritual let's say). Clearly, that is a result of that child's freely flowering curiosity. Plus, when you say "Those who did not learn to read, or learned badly, were more often the fundamentalists", you seem to be implying that a Waldorf education is aimed at retarding the urge or capacity to read. That is definitely not the case. Kids may learn to read at any age that is natural for them, but many kids are forced to undertake the painstaking drudgery of "sounding out" words when they are not naturally receptive to the procedure yet.

As for openness to "new ideas", my point was that mechanization of the intellect, as occurs during the process of decoding words, gives a limited sense of what reading is *in the long run.* Many people can be highly intellectual and very well read but still lack a sense of how to approach the subtle arguments and descriptions of a spiritual writer, for example. Although I don't think being atheist in itself means that one is incapable of reading in a highly subtle way, certainly there are some atheists who repeat hackneyed thinking over and over: "Assertions made without supporting evidence may be dismissed without further evidence." I'm sure you've heard that one.

It may be that I cannot convince you in a short amount of time that society needs more people who have learned to think in an imaginative and heart-filled way, which is what Waldorf education is designed to foster. But, as a spiritual person you may want to withold judgment about Anthroposophy as a science of developing the full-range of human capabilities (as evidenced through Waldorf education, Eurythmy, Biodynamic farming, Spacial Dynamics, the Camphill Schools for special needs children, and many other examples.) I'm very sorry if you personally had a bad experience with Waldorf at some point. I understand how that can affect one's whole sense of something. I had a bad experience with Vedanta, and for awhile it completely soured me on all things Vedanta. I'm glad to say that that is no longer the case. As it is said, "One bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch."

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 3, 2012, 6:56:07 PM PDT
Astrocat says:
Baba, yes, I do understand Steiner's theories. In fact, the Bailey teachings mention that the soul doesn't take control of the physical body until the age of 7, and the emotional nature between the ages of 14 and 21. I don't doubt that that's still the case, but I do think that, since we are now entering the Aquarian Age, and are no longer bound by Piscean energies, things are changing, so that the mental nature is ready for earlier stimulation.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 3, 2012, 9:28:07 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 3, 2012, 9:30:26 PM PDT
There is that possibility. Man is devilishly clever already, so it's difficult for me to understand how more rapid intellectual learning is going to make humanity better able to evolve toward spiritual maturity. My guess is that children haven't changed; society has changed in ways that Steiner predicted it would. Childhood is no longer the domain for free exploration and play. A great deal of attention and money has been expended on influencing children to be led in their playfulness rather than to be the natural and supple innovators that they have demonstrated in the past. Time will tell if society has fostered the better inclinations.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 3, 2012, 9:56:47 PM PDT
Astrocat says:
My thinking on how more "rapid intellectual learning is going to make humanity better able to evolve toward spiritual maturity" is that, as it is through the mind, the mental nature, that Soul interacts most fully with its "shadow", the human personality, anything to enhance that connection is definitely more conducive to spiritual maturity. Keeping people ignorant in any sense seems to me to be inhibiting that growth.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 4, 2012, 7:48:18 AM PDT
Faithradha says:
Dear Leone... and all ....

Since yesterday was Gurupurnima... the night of the Perfect Moon, celebrated by many seekers of many traditions, the Siddha Yoga website posted a number of special events ... one of them is the telling of the Story of Nizamuddin and Amir Khusro.
As you may know Nizamuddin was a great Suffi Master... and Amir Khusro a great disciple of his. Every time I hear this divine story I weep with joy and gratitude for the Grace of The Master.
No doubt you have heard the story before... but who can hear it enough?? ? : )

I am not sure how long it will be offered at the website ... hopefully long enough to catch it.
If you are so moved go to... home page and look just below the blue blocks... to the right and you will find it there. * Story of Nizamuddin and Amir Khusro. There is so much grace imbued in these words... it is ... palpable. A gift from The Master. : )


In reply to an earlier post on Jul 4, 2012, 8:05:38 AM PDT
Astrocat says:
Faith, that's a beautiful story, and filled with light and so much truth. Thank you.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 4, 2012, 10:13:37 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 4, 2012, 10:21:54 AM PDT
Why do you keep inferring that Steiner's view of the human being and the endeavor of educating him/her is aimed at "keeping people ignorant"? The aim is to awaken all of the human being's multifarious potentials by cultivating them in the order in which each can best make use of those which developmentally preceded them in accordance with the nature of human evolution.

You almost make me think you are using your antipathy to something that I obviously admire in order to drive me away. Would you like me to leave? I'm certainly capable of knowing where I'm not welcome. Good day, madam.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 4, 2012, 10:31:08 AM PDT
Astrocat says:
Baba, I'm not at all trying to "drive" you away. I thought this was a conversation where we were welcome to give our own opinions on things. Guess I was wrong.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 4, 2012, 11:35:35 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 4, 2012, 11:44:30 AM PDT
Well, you have your opinion, and I have over 20 years experience as a primary grades teacher. You have continued to misrepresent Waldorf education as a retrogressive force that belongs to the "Piscean age" and which creates nonreaders who are especially prone to fundamentalism on account of their ignorance! That's some opinion alright; it just bears no resemblance to the reality that I have observed firsthand.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 4, 2012, 12:20:29 PM PDT
Astrocat says:
Baba, my daughter was a Waldorf teacher, and I did quite a lot of research when she was working in that school, and visited on occasion, so was able to do some observing as well. My opinions are, of course, my opinions, and you have your own experiences. I wouldn't presume to say either of us was right or wrong, since our experiences seem to have differed.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 4, 2012, 12:45:20 PM PDT
Well, to be fair, some of your criticisms I have heard before. As with anything there are no guarantees; or, as they say in the fine print, your results may vary. I think we can consider this subject amicably closed.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 4, 2012, 1:12:48 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Jul 8, 2012, 7:16:54 AM PDT]

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 4, 2012, 7:47:03 PM PDT
Astrocat says:
Baba, amicable is always good. Onward!

Posted on Jul 4, 2012, 9:04:35 PM PDT
jpl says:
Yes, but not as regularly as I used to. It's invaluable. Most people in today's world want quick fixes. To begin to see the results of meditation takes time.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 9, 2012, 11:47:40 AM PDT
witchie+ says:
I attend an unaffiliated Yogananda meditation group twice per month. The powerful group energy helps me break through meditation and personal problems that I am working on. I have been a Yogananda devotee since 1976 and belong to both Ananda and Self Realization Fellowship. However, I have had varous mentors over the years since I began meditating in 1970. For someone, as blessed as I am, these people/mentors appear to me as they seem to be needed. They leave just the same way they came.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 9, 2012, 11:49:30 AM PDT
witchie+ says:
Nancy: "This is not to infer that my "way" is the "right" way. I hope it's obvious by now that that's not how I think. But when someone says "True Meditation" is this or that it reminds me rather uncomfortably of the claim to the "one, true religion". As far as I'm concerned there is no "one, true" anything, everything is subject to change and revision to suit the need."

The further I get into my path, the more I realize that there is no "one way". I just keep sitting here amazed at what comes next to teach me more lessons.

In reply to an earlier post on Jul 9, 2012, 3:53:10 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jul 9, 2012, 3:53:26 PM PDT
Astrocat says:
Kathleen, I think you've read Journey of Souls. (?) Anyway, before I read it I was a bit skeptical, but I tried to keep an open mind, and as I read it I applied it to concepts that I had, apparently, wrapped up in a little box. I had to open those boxes and stretch my concepts, working with the "what if" prospect. It was an astonishing (to me) process, because I didn't realize I had put my ideas in such a narrow space. Now I feel as if I've encompassed the entire universe, and that's not even the end of it. So yes, amazed, really, continually amazed.
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