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What (who if you insist) is God?


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Showing 76-100 of 167 posts in this discussion
Posted on Jun 9, 2012, 7:28:35 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 9, 2012, 7:33:18 PM PDT
jpl says:
What (who if you insist) is God?

jpl: If I were to label my thoughts of ontology, epistemology, phenomenology, and a lot of other fancy terms in relation to the concept of a god, I'd have to say that it (this god concept) is beyond human concept, and that if it is ever to be known, it must be known within, subjectively. But this knowledge, if it exists, must be worked hard for to achieve. Of course, I don't know that this is possible.

I don't think this UNKNOWABLE is anything one can conceive unless it's possible to reach such a state of consciousness beyond description. In other words, if such a thing beyond our abilities to describe what might be called a god, this, I think, is something that must be worked for individually and realized only by the few who are working hard enough to subjectively experience it.

If such KNOWLEDGE exists, I think it must be experienced and cannot be described through any of our limitations. I certainly don't believe in an anthropomorphic god. We humans will never be able to describe the phenomenal cosmos, nor do we even comprehend what a cosmos is.

We will never know the farthest far, the smallest small, and any number of things that can fall under the category of ABSOLUTE REALITY. If some GRAND SOMETHING exists, I think it must be experienced only subjectively and pursued with the greatest of diligence. And who's to say whether it can be found?

If such a SOMETHING existed, I don't think it could ever be described. I think it could only be experienced.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 9, 2012, 7:49:47 PM PDT
jpl says:
basharun says: Also, the idea of worship (in a ritualistic sense) seems to be another deterrent to accepting a notion of God. The ritualistic idea of worship also comes later. First there has to be a more basic idea of worship as just a synonym for admire, appreciate, praise etc.
Once that is understood, then "worship" is accepted as the most natural, instinctive activity of humankind.

jpl: basharun, for me this inpirational descriptor I use is "awe". I am in awe of my existence, the stars, and everything I don't know.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 9, 2012, 7:55:59 PM PDT
jpl says:
Faithradha says: My personal favorite definition for "God" is That One which exists beyond all possible definitions.

And yes..."God" dwells within you AS You. The problem is ...Most do not REALIZE ...yet... wh/what They ARE. To fully KNOW that which is the Source of mind..first one must Transcend the mind. Not so easy to do. In comparison...getting into heaven is a "piece of cake". Heaven is a domain of the mind.. as is Hell...and this earth plane. While the mind is the domain of "God"'

"God" / Infinite Consciousness becomes the mind and then hides within it as Witness to it.

jpl: Faithradha, is this something you yourself have experienced, or are you just regurgitating something you've learned? Do you have personal knowledge whereof you speak?

Posted on Jun 9, 2012, 8:29:23 PM PDT
basharun says:
jpl says:
"What (who if you insist) is God?
jpl: If I were to label my thoughts of ontology, epistemology, phenomenology, and a lot of other fancy terms in relation to the concept of a god, I'd have to say that it (this god concept) is beyond human concept, and that if it is ever to be known, it must be known within, subjectively. But this knowledge, if it exists, must be worked hard for to achieve. Of course, I don't know that this is possible....(and the rest of your post)"

jpl, I agree with this, and also that it can ultimately only be known individually.
And, "awe" is also one of my favoured descriptors.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 12:26:40 AM PDT
G'day Basha,

Is that as in "Shock and Awe" when George W. Bush declared himself God and America the Cleansing Angel?

071V8

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 12:41:23 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 10, 2012, 1:14:02 AM PDT
G'day Jeff,
I get your point, but what I was hoping for, and to some degree successful so far, was for logical people, religious and not, to put their best peer reviewable case forward about what must be acknowledged as the most universal predilection on the planet.

Calling the religious fearful reality-dodgers isn't sufficient to garner logical support.

And unilaterally proclaiming everthing spiritual as deluded hogwash is arrogant and ignorant.

That's why I started at the fundamental question.

071V8

Posted on Jun 10, 2012, 12:50:48 AM PDT
basharun says:
Jody said: "Is that as in "Shock and Awe" when George W. Bush declared himself God and America the Cleansing Angel?"

Nope, Georgie wouldn't be one of my favourite descriptors. He would be my least favourite decrepit, though.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 12:51:29 AM PDT
basharun says:
You down under Jody?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 1:13:21 AM PDT
Yes, bloke.

And you?

Posted on Jun 10, 2012, 1:15:03 AM PDT
basharun says:
Cape Town, South Africa.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 1:22:12 AM PDT
Well, werrie, thanks for the franks.

My turn to out.

I am a surfer-scientist-bassman.

In that order.

9r

This is my vid and my band playing.

That's me at 3:13

8.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFXEW5AgtEs

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 1:26:43 AM PDT
I travelled through Spain and Portugal with 6 young whites (not racist, just so you know what I mean).

I found their social philosophies "interesting"

How's the day to day there nowadays?

8.)

Posted on Jun 10, 2012, 2:26:59 AM PDT
OldAmazonian says:
at Yale

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 2:30:59 AM PDT
...at Yale what, Ol'Amazzzzzzzing?

071V8

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 2:40:26 AM PDT
OldAmazonian says:
God and Man at Yale: The Superstitions of 'Academic Freedom' (None)

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 2:49:27 AM PDT
G'day Ol'Man,

With this review:
Review
"Without God and Man at Yale, one could fairly say, the conservative movement would not exist today. Soon after winning national attention with this controversial polemic, William F. Buckley Jr. deployed his youth, charm, and intellect to unite a motley crew of cantankerous intellectuals into a viable conservative movement. Less than a generation after Lionel Trilling famously opined that `in the United States at this time liberalism is not only the dominant but even the sole intellectual tradition,' Buckley had in large part caused the liberal consensus to unravel."

Why didn't Buckley invent a church like Hubbard did, or the morman finder of the book?

071V8

Posted on Jun 10, 2012, 3:11:10 AM PDT
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder; God is in the mind of the beholder. God is what anyone wants God to be.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 4:05:39 AM PDT
G'day Shello,
Too true.

But, respect all round assumed, what I was trying to do was provoke thoughtful minds, religious and not, to state their fundamental case.

Reactionary terrorists do it as easy as having a nap.

Why don't we?
(That question was pointed at you too, Jeff)

071V8

Posted on Jun 10, 2012, 5:01:53 AM PDT
Hi Jody,

You can't see God, feel God or touch God. The concept is created in the mind. Therefore, it can be whatever anyone wants it to be. That's why there is only one God. Every individual has to create God; a universal concept that is unique to that person.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 7:10:02 AM PDT
Ah, Shelagh,
I had a very similar conversation last night.

Only YOU can make yourself happy.

I spotted that just a few years ago.

I'm still not an expert though.

HA!

9r

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 7:10:40 AM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Rasheed says:

[Just to be clear again, I'm requesting a scientific discussion, not a philosophical one.]

Well it's very interesting because the laws of conventional physics break down as scientists trace backwards in time to the moment of the Big Bang or anything that happened before that. That was a TV show I saw recently called "What Happened Before The Big Bang ?".

But even the term 'before' is problematic in this context. Also saying that everything started from nothing raises more questions about what exactly the word 'nothing' means. Does it mean only a vacuum where matter didn't exist or truly absolutely nothing ?

Hubble realized that the universe is expanding so from that discovery people surmised that this expansion must have begun from some common and central place. So the cosmologists create the mathematics to describe this expansion.

But when they get to the point of the Big Bang they can't figure out what happened. And they don't like this too well. They can't sleep at night knowing there's anything that can't be explained by a mathematical formula.

They come up with various theories to explain the Bang but those are usually based on a preexisting universe or universes. One is the universe is going to collapse back down on itself and explode again and perhaps this has happened before. That's an interesting question about whether the universe is created based on some eternal, repeating cycle.

Some of these scientists work at a place called The Perimeter Institute near Toronto. The director of this institute, Neil Turok, came up with theory that every trillion years or so two 'branes' collide to create another universe. A trillion years is a very long time. I don't think the human mind can really comprehend just how long of a time that is.

Once the Big Bang got started the eternal expansion part was explained by Alan Guth who I guess is a professor at MIT.

But then Andre Linde says the BB theory is flawed and people like Turok come up with theories that have a shelf life of about 1 year. He says the eternal expansion ran out of steam to create many, many universes. Linde says the number of universes is:

10**10**10**7

The people from planet Iarga say there are 12 universes. They believe in the Big Bang or 'super flash' as they call it and they say this happened 30 billion years ago:

Ufo...Contact from Planet Iarga

This is where things start to move into the area of philosophy and religion as far as that book is concerned.

Jeff Marzano

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 7:22:10 AM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
jpl says:

[If such a SOMETHING existed, I don't think it could ever be described. I think it could only be experienced.]

I agree that there are concepts which cannot be easily described using language.

There's an interesting statement in the Edgar Cayce material where Cayce's students asked him to explain the psychic abilities of the Atlantean Hept-Supht:

"This would almost be impossible. To put such into words would be as impractical as it would be to describe what the multiple of colors as related to vibrations brings, reduced to the 11th or nth degree."

That's an unusually technical and complex statement for Cayce who usually spoke in terms that people could relate to although he spoke in an unusual way like some sort of god which I believe he is.

Hept-Supht is an interesting character in Cayce's Egyptian material. That name means "he that keeps the record, that keeps shut".

Hept-Supht was present at a ceremony with Ra Ta (Cayce) and Isis where the Hall Of Records was hermetically sealed and the apex was placed at the top of the Great Pyramid. This was a great day for the ancient Egyptians.

"This was in the period as given of 10,500 years before the entering of the Prince of Peace in the land to study to become an initiate in or through those same activities that were set by Hept-Supht in this dedicating ceremony."

Cayce was referring to Jesus Christ in that statement. He said Christ traveled to Egypt and experienced the initiate rites. According to Cayce that's what Christ was doing during the so called 'missing years' that weren't captured in the bible.

Christ had the ability to explain spiritual truths in terms that simple people could relate to. He often used parables to explain those ideas like with the prodigal son, the farmer who sowed his seeds on different types of ground, etc..

Jeff Marzano

Edgar Cayce on Vibrations: Spirit in Motion

Edgar Cayce's Story of Jesus

Edgar Cayce's Egypt: Psychic Revelations on the Most Fascinating Civilization Ever Known

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 7:32:17 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 10, 2012, 7:41:42 AM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Shelagh Watkins says:

[Beauty is in the eye of the beholder].

There's an interesting story in mythology where Zeus holds a contest to determine who is the most beautiful of the goddesses. The choices were:

Athena
Hera (Zeus' wife)
Aphrodite

Paris had the pleasant task of making the final decision.

However the goddess of discord crashed the party and brought a golden apple with her. On this apple was written "For the fairest".

Well the inevitable happened. The three goddesses all presumed that the apple was meant for them. All hell broke lose after that.

I think Helen Of Troy may be in this mix also somewhere I'm not sure. 'The face that launched a thousand ships'.

I'm reading Homer's Iliad now. For the ancient Greeks this story was a historical fact.

The mythological stories have historically provided a lot of material for artists including Da Vinci and Botticelli during the Renaissance.

According to the legends there was a gigantic statue of Athena in the Greek Pantheon building at one time.

There was also a massive statue of Zeus in a temple in Greece I think at one time. Some misguided Roman emperor who had converted to Christianity had this statue pulverized. Another terrible act of vandalism against priceless and irreplaceable ancient treasures.

Jeff Marzano

Mythic Troy: The Complete Story Legend Archeology and Intuition

Zeus: A Journey Through Greece in the Footsteps of a God

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 10, 2012, 7:34:08 AM PDT
Jeff Marzano says:
Jody R. Bailey says:

[(That question was pointed at you too, Jeff)]

OK but there's probably going to be a backlash from the pure scientists in this forum. We're crossing a line.

Jeff Marzano

Posted on Jun 10, 2012, 7:48:38 AM PDT
Dan says:
Shouldn't this thread have been labeled OT as we are in the science forum?
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Initial post:  May 31, 2012
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