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Why is the God of the Bible so angry? Also - Adam and Eve... come on?


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Showing 5051-5075 of 1000 posts in this discussion
Posted on Apr 15, 2012, 10:13:13 PM PDT
Nothing happened to me to make me want to turn away from religion, except for education and a brain that tells me to always ask questions and rely on tangible evidence. My lack of faith is most definitely NOT coming from a place of presumption or myth, that is organized religion's department. I think you have forgotten that I was raised in a religious family, and have studied many other religions as well, along with philosophy and science. History too. I have a brain, and I use it to think, not fill it full of dreamy fantasy stuff unless it is to relax and blow off some steam. Then I don't mind using my imagination to express my creativity. But otherwise, no, it doesn't make any sense to me to waste my time believing in some made up story by a young girl who found herself in a predicament that would've lead to her death if it weren't for the fantastical story she made up concerning her pregnancy.

You see, knowing the way things were then, and seeing as how very little has changed in that region, I am positive that she would've said anything in order to protect herself. Women are setting themselves on fire to escape the persecution of their husbands and neighbors for even lesser sins in the middle east! And that is how I feel about the Christ story. As far as God is concerned, everything in the universe proves that God cannot exist, and that he is none of the things that religious people have attributed to him.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 15, 2012, 11:50:20 PM PDT
Hi Carol.

The way you came to believe in God seems to have been a natural organic growth, based on your search for reality. Nobody can take away what you have now and neither should they. It is a precious philosophy that has been acquired through a process of self searching and good examples.

If she would allow me to say this: Z D & I have also searched and come to different conclusions. In my case, perhaps not so different to yours. I believe that both Z D & myself try and follow the goodness inside ourselves, but don't connect that goodness with a god.

TC

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 16, 2012, 7:18:41 AM PDT
Jane Reese says:
TC, ZD has done a good job of explaning the same idea; no problem.
The reason that my comments continue,- are not, to convince or convict;
but they are the answers, as best I can, to new questions. The only reason
I try to rephrase them, one more time.

You are not too far away from what Jesus taught; "The kingdom of heaven
is "within" and it is "at hand"........... We do have more in common than
what can be explained with words....... There is a lot we do "know".
Don't you think?

Posted on Apr 16, 2012, 7:26:12 AM PDT
I do pretty much agree with a lot of what Carol says, we just attribute things to different reasons. But the basic tenant of love, mercy, forgiveness, and such remains constant, as it should be with all moral people regardless of belief.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 16, 2012, 7:27:01 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 16, 2012, 7:31:10 AM PDT
Jane Reese says:
Zombia, Your comments imply that those of us that are Chriatians,
have no brain, - or that we cease to use it when we also look to faith.

While using reasoning and mind; it is just that I am convinced by other
evidence, that Life Itself is not limited to what our puny minds can comprehend.

We do believe in "Something More......", could that make us perceptive; or like
you imply..... pretending to see what was never there?
MOre Blessings....

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 16, 2012, 7:44:49 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 16, 2012, 7:51:42 AM PDT
Tim S. says:
Zombie, "You are simply high on your own faith." that was great. That's concurrent with the highly positive brain waves I was talking about.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 16, 2012, 7:46:29 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 16, 2012, 7:49:41 AM PDT
Jane Reese says:
Sargon, Hope your weekend was better than the last.
With every statement of conviction by you and ZD, - you are SO sure
that your information is all that exists....... there is no more......

It reminds me more and more of the fundalmentalists, that have all the
answers all sewed up; and can not process the possibility of anything
in the universe that they have not sorted in your files. They refuse to
even consider it............ they are fundamentally "right". Amen.

To believe that our finite, little brains can limit Creation OR Creator to their
understanding is a little amazing.
Perceiving that there is "Something More.....", it much more likely, than
that ALL is limited to your understanding....... Wow...I hope so...
Blessings right now.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 16, 2012, 8:08:25 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 16, 2012, 8:15:37 AM PDT
Tim S. says:
Hi Carol, I am feeling better now with the antibiotics. I can concentrate better and was reading last night--Lovecraft, not the Bible. The Necronomicon, bound in a beautiful black leather cover. But I do digress. Anyway, Carol, when I was in the E.R. they did not throw holy water on me,or wave a cross across my body , the better to heal it. No spoken encantations in Latin verse. Let us rewind the clock to the Renaissance and the time of Leonardo Da Vinci. He was exhuming bodies so he could perform autopsies and sketch and analyse the human body. But if the almighty Catholic Church had found out, he might well have burned at the stake for his heretical acts. He was taking the first steps in medical science. Another example is some religious zealots, like the Jehovahs Witnesses, who refuse to be treated by doctors for relatively simple ailments, and they end up dying.
This is called indirect proof. Did you know the Oxygen Sensor in your car controls the air-fuel mixture? It does so by analysing the exhaust gas in the exhaust pipe. It feeds the information to the computer which adjusts the throttle accordingly. So by analysing the effects(of the exhaust) it knows what is going on in the fuel intake system. If you came into a slum in Haiti and put up a church and told them to expect miracles and their plight would be eliminated soon, they would have a good laugh on you. Unless Bill Gates gave one of his donations. Then, for sure. ha ha.

Posted on Apr 16, 2012, 9:16:44 AM PDT
"We do believe in "Something More......", could that make us perceptive; or like
you imply..... pretending to see what was never there?"

It's not pretending to see, but hoping to see. Pretending infers that one is deliberately aware that something is not real. I'm suggesting that people of faith actually have convinced themselves through hope that it is real. That's a HUGE difference!

I'd also like to address your comparison of atheists and fundamentalists. You are far off track. Fundementalists are not "fundamentally right", they believe in the Bible's fundamentals, a more literal belief than the looser, modern take on religion. They will not budge, and refuse to consider anything else but what the Bible tells them. On the other hand, atheists actually DO consider all the options, as long as it applies logic and makes sense to the skeptic. I think most atheists are willing to believe in something, just as long as it can be proven to a certain extent. We accept that we cannot know everything, but we will adjust what we accept when factual evidence can be applied. There has been nothing to prove that any of the bible is a true account, and the only facts that do seem to be accepted are on an emotional level, and that's easy enough to explain away.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 16, 2012, 9:43:58 AM PDT
Jane Reese says:
Sargon, Science can now measure the energy produced by the spoken
word and the by thoughts.
That has been true for several years, now.
If some of us directed that Love/Light/Caring
energy to you;
......do you think that Energy "could" have a positive effect
on your body/mind/soul?

If we went to a slum in Haiti and spread Love, Light and Caring.....
The words would probably not be necessary to get our message
across. Love/Light IS Power; if we recognize it, - or if we don't.

Your goodness and beauty comes through your posts.
YOu do a lousy job of hiding it.
Blesssings to you and your.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 16, 2012, 9:58:18 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 16, 2012, 10:07:18 AM PDT
Jane Reese says:
ZD, They present that same agrument. The comparison works
when it comes to being so sure of what they just do not know;
with no intention of even considering another possibility......

Do you consider that just maybe, we are not as spaced out as you discribe?
You say it nicely, but it means that you can understand something that, because
we are on a cloud, - so we can not see.
Do you thik that we could not discern if things were as you say? Come on!

No, it is not that way; because that is the only explanation that there is;
unless those pesky people do see, "Something More...."?
That is all there is; there ain't no more to say.
We choose to be "seekers" OR "knowers".
I choose to seek.
I sure had fun dragging this out......... Yea!

Posted on Apr 16, 2012, 10:19:56 AM PDT
sorry, but the comparison doesn't work, mainly because you continue to insist that atheists have no intention of considering another possibility. That is where you fail. Atheists consider ALL possibilities as long as they are logical and have a basis in factual evidence. You keep twisting it back around to suit YOUR meaning, which is why you can never answer the questions. You are too busy looking at things from that same narrow point of view.

Atheists ARE sure of what they know, in as much as what can and cannot be proven. Emotional responses to the written word, any written words, can only prove that the EMOTIONS are real, not the words themselves. True the emotional impact can have an effect on one's life, there's never been a dispute to this, BUT it does not prove the existence of a higher power independent from one's self. A bunch of people having the same emotional response still does not prove the existence of God, all it means is that the words moved them.

I've never once suggested that Christians or other people of faith are "spaced out". I am saying that they are relying on a mind trick to find peace when it isn't at all necessary. You do not need an outside source to find peace. You do not have to seek elsewhere. You simply have to accept that all life is a sort of "suffering", depending on your attachments to things, and learn to let go "wishful" thoughts and take more action in order to move in a positive direction. Good begets good. Bad begets bad.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 16, 2012, 11:23:16 AM PDT
Hi Carol.

As a Buddhist, this is what the Buddha, Gautama Siddharta (also known as little Bertie) had to say:

"The whole secret of existence is to have no fear. Never fear what will become of you, depend on no one. Only the moment you reject all help are you freed."

- Hindu Prince Gautama Siddharta: the founder of Buddhism

It's just another way of coming to terms with one's existence; no better or worse than Christian belief.

For Christians, truth is found through belief in God, as is the means to peace and tranquility.
Buddhists are advised to fear nothing in the universe and to look inward for their truth and tranquility.

It's up to the individual which route to take. Your Christian beliefs are based on what you have experienced &, yes, it is possible that they are just your emotions having a little play with you. On the other hand........? Same in Buddhism, maybe the 'reality' we find inside is false. Until you experience things directly, it's hard to make a judgment.

The enlightened Buddhist practitioners totally believe that their 'enlightenment' is real. I, on the other hand can argue the toss as to whether they are having an emotional based, but delusional experience or that they have just made contact with 'reality'.

I've got a headache now.

TC

Posted on Apr 16, 2012, 11:53:50 AM PDT
That was a GREAT point, TC!

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 16, 2012, 12:47:38 PM PDT
Thanks Zombie.

We can but try.

TC

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 16, 2012, 12:56:59 PM PDT
Atheism is so much easier !! And, quite frankly, it makes much more sense !!

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 16, 2012, 1:01:04 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 16, 2012, 8:16:14 PM PDT
Tim S. says:
TC, from what I understand , true enlightenment is rare in Buddhism. The Dali Lama was asked if he had achieved enlightenment, by Barbara Wawa. He replied, "no." Enlightenment means awareness. (I've read Siddhartha, and How to Practice) But, I think it's deeper than that. I've read more of the Tao too. An entire book on it: Everyday Tao. Tao is about nature. There were once Tao temples and monks. Even Tao Generals, who were quite formidable and ruthless. Tao may have faded into the background but it will never fade away entirely. It's quite fascinating to study religion. Religion started out with a simple ceremony to bring good luck to the hunt yet look how many variations on a theme we have today. I'd prefer the Tao, if I had to choose.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 16, 2012, 2:20:19 PM PDT
Tim S. says:
Atheism is easier. No verses to memorize. No fancy clothes to buy. But , autism is even easier!!

(bad joke)

Posted on Apr 16, 2012, 7:56:27 PM PDT
Tim S. says:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/15/web-freedom-threat-google-brin

thought you'd like to know,

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 17, 2012, 12:24:10 AM PDT
Hi Sargon.

Yes, I think you're right, enlightenment seems very rare & some of the old Zen monks I met said that, although they had achieved much inner peace, they were not enlightened.

Taoism is a great philosophy and Chinese martial arts is based on its ideology and precepts. The Western take on it is - 'to go with the flow' or 'to be in the zone' within all activities, which I'm sure you've read about in your studies.

Your observation about the origin of religion sounds very plausible.

TC

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 17, 2012, 12:32:24 AM PDT
Hi Mike.

I agree with you, Atheism is mainly based in logical observation. One danger I see is when someone says categorically 'there is no god'; he or she is performing an act of faith. They 'believe' that there is no god.

My instincts tell me that there is no external god who 'runs the universe', but I can't prove that this is so.

Otherwise, Atheists do make good sense.

TC

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 17, 2012, 3:30:18 AM PDT
Agreed!!!

Posted on Apr 17, 2012, 6:52:27 AM PDT
As an atheist, and I can only speak for myself, I believe there is no God. Not in the sense that there is a sentient being running things. I do believe in energies, a "force" if you will, that is "alive" and unexplainable as far as its origin goes. I definitely do not believe that there is some sort of puppet master who created everything intentionally. I think it all sort of happened as a result of other actions in a chaotic fashion, some good and some bad, and it will continue to do so. Now as far as the very beginning, the starting point, I just don't know. Nobody will ever know. But there is no conscious God, of that I'm certain.

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 17, 2012, 7:59:50 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Apr 17, 2012, 8:09:22 AM PDT
Jane Reese says:
ZD, .. I only speak for myself.... I believe in God. I do believe in energies, a "Force"
if you will, that is "Alive" and unexplainable as far as His origin goes.
I most definitely do not believe that there is some sort of puppet master who munipulates
individuals.
If His purpose in creating man in His image (likeness), is just to "walk and talk"
(metaphor) with Him, I find that very exciting. I believe that could mean that
the sky is the limit. I see science and faith as exploring those limitless possibilities.

I think that science has done a great job of finding the how and why of much that
God has made; but they have never been able to "create the essense of Light";
or Life. At best man studies/learns; but Life-Light-Love is part of God Himself.

To bring it home, - man can set the conditions for Life; but can not bring out
one tiny bud on a tree, of that I am certain.

IF this Essense of Life, is not available to commune with man; I am thankful
that He made us able to ...have ...the great delusion..... to believe ..... that
we can be.....in His Presence.....

That is so much more than a high....... He is just "I AM" and we just "BE". (Reality)
....of that I am certain.
(See how close we are? he)

In reply to an earlier post on Apr 17, 2012, 8:13:05 AM PDT
Jane Reese says:
Good job..... you earned that headache......
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