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Dear Parents and Sellers, I am disappointed in all of you

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Showing 326-346 of 346 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 7:18:53 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 7, 2012 7:20:30 AM PDT
amanda says:
Who is getting ridiculous and not being civil? Or do they just not agree with you?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 7:54:21 AM PDT
DisplacedMic says:
Personally, I agree with Kristin. i don't necessarily think the two are related. Being rude or polite has very little to do with being right or wrong.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 7:59:49 AM PDT
amanda says:
Yes. Not answering the question is not answering the question. Who is not being civil?

Posted on Jun 7, 2012 8:06:11 AM PDT
DisplacedMic says:
read the thread yourself - there are people on both "sides" of this issue who have been particularly nasty to each other and to young Isaac here.

As it were, I happen to disagree with your last post but i don't think Kristin was referring to any of your posts if that makes you feel better - i certainly wasn't.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 9:56:23 AM PDT
Sandra Green says:
Just curious - are you a parent?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 10:08:20 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 7, 2012 10:10:40 AM PDT
shiloh sales says:

In regards to your thoughts on a seller listing an item he does not have and then buying it after he get the sales order.

Amazon wants sellers to ship the item within 2 business days, I think the seller would have to do some scrambling and drop everything they were doing to go out and buy the item. What if the item is sold out and wherever they are trying to find it?

Sellers on Amazon has a many pieces of criteria they have to meet or exceed within Amazon which includes, shipping on time, packages with tracking numbers, answering customers emails within 24 hours, feedback (Amazon wants us to be 98% or better on our feedback) and much more. If our internal score gets too low, Amazon will suspend our sellers account. Most sellers want to be in the Blue "Buy Box" you'll see in the upper right corner of the listings, sellers performance has a lot to do with which seller gets the buy box.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 11:07:01 AM PDT

First, since you are using it a lot, MSRP varies throughout different markets, and as a "suggestion", it's hardly something guaranteed. People love to talk of MSRP as if it were some kind of law or guarantee of a price. It's not. Additionally, someone mentioned before that most MSRPs are actually set quite high; higher than many retailers would offer a product for.

Now, as to the rest of your post, in order. There will always be some lag time between an item shipped and you receiving it. If the lag is extraordinary, and you have some sort of evidence, other than your unfounded suppositions, then you may have something. Until then, you're speculating on unproven nonsense.

Why would Amazon start monitoring reviews more than they are? It's not Amazon's job to determine who is reviewing and for why. That's YOUR job. YOU need to read ALL reviews (and not just on Amazon) to be an educated consumer.

This may come as a shock to you, but there are other places in the world to shop other than ebay and Amazon.

Why in the world would anyone demand a LOWER price for added convenience? EVERY store has a middle man. That is your retailer. Do you think your local grocery store GROWS the vegetables and milks the cows themselves? Do you read what you write, or is your post merely whatever you are thinking of at the time? It is truly sad that you feel that you are another victim and you demand the lowest possible price, but the bottom line is that you have absolutely NO entitlement to a low price. If a seller CHOOSES to price something they own, that's THEIR entitlement, and it's YOUR entitlement to walk away. It is NOT your entitlement to be a victim and whine about how you are unable to buy things. Others can and others do.

Back to MSRP. Finally, the one thing that makes sense. You are correct, most people don't pay MSRP. What do they pay? That's between them and the vendor. It's not your business to know.

Finally, consumer trust is earned by delivering what is promised, when it is promised. Pricing has nothing to do with it, except, perhaps in your world, where you feel you have the RIGHT to the lowest price on everything. THAT is what brings people back. You can have the highest price out there, but if someone buys it, and it is delivered as promised, THAT will make them return. Not something as arbitrary as a price. No one NEEDS to change a price. It's not something that is "good business practise" when you lower a price, especially if you a) can command a higher price and b) would be pricing at a loss.

Your previous post suggests first that you want to buy happiness (or love) of your children and that somehow selling is not a "legitimate" business. Not to mention that you seem to be confused about a "convenience charge" with shipping. When you pay a bill online, or over the phone, many places charge a "convenience charge". Is that somehow dishonest now, as well?

No one is "taking advantage" of anyone else. Much less with a transaction that an adult willingly enters into. Not to mention that your example of "buying up all the milk" is not only completely unrelated, but similarly not possible.

You seem to be a very misinformed individual.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 1:17:18 PM PDT
DisplacedMic says:
"I would equate what these people do with someone who would buy all the milk from the local stores and then resell it out of their home with a mark up. Would that be ok too? Why not? Aren't you proud of your 'business'?"

this has been covered at least 5 times in this thread. Literally this very milk example. if someone buys up all the milk from the local stores then yes - they might very well be preventing you from reasonably procuring milk. Lets define locally: lets say you are limited to a radius of 50 miles. Without getting into the economics of such a behaviour, whether or not this is moral or ethical is completely irrelevant as there is literally no such limiting radius on the internet. Maybe you don't have access to the next town's milk store - that simply isn't the case on the internet where it takes almost no time whatsoever to go to a different website.

The bigger the market, the less effect any one party can have on it. The internet is the perfect example of that.

In other words, on the internet - nobody can "buy up all the milk"

Finally - whether or not that person should be proud of this particular behaviour is irrelevant. It is my opinion that it is better to live in a world with these types of people than in one where i don't have the freedom to choose how I spend my money.

There are plenty of jobs that i wouldn't personally be proud of - but that doesn't mean it's not a good thing that they exist.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 1:25:02 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 7, 2012 2:21:20 PM PDT
amanda says:
No one demanded the lowest price. I am far from cheap. Unfortunately for you, most people look at the price longer than I do. However, selling an $11 toy for $100 is hardly what most people would perceive as an acceptable mark up. This is more holding the object for ransom than selling it. You may find a sale. However, you turn a lot of people off. An intelligent person who sells products for a living does not want to do this. I am sorry you cannot understand silly concepts like fairness and kindness. I know. The golden rule is so antiquated. What does it have to do with your profit margin? The people who sell here and encourage such practices hurt themselves. Even those wanting only a small profit will be affected. When people see such prices, they check the prices more closely and search elsewhere.
I am sure you are not the first to look down your nose at consumers and think it is your right to charge as much as the market will bare. This is exactly why many small businesses fail. People sense the condescending attitude. It is not attractive. You have the opinion that no one matters but you. You equate a sale with satisfaction. Not true. I may pay more for an item I could not otherwise find. However, I certainly will not seek out the person who sold it when I shop again.
Speaking of parenting, if you are a parent, you are teaching your children to disrespect others. I hope the lessons comes home to roost. I am sure they will. I would much rather have a parent who overindulges me than one who will sell my favorite toy out from under me if the price is high enough or simply tells me my desires are silly and I will not get a toy just because I want it. After all, treating a child as if their desires mattered would make you no better than one of the fools who buy your products.
I always went out of my way to avoid Ebay. That is why I am dismayed to find Amazon looking more and more like it. In fact, there have been times I paid more to avoid such transactions. It gets more and more difficult to avoid this type of sale because the speculators get out there earlier and earlier trying to buy up what ever they think will be hot.
No you personally could not buy all or most of a product. However, at last count you are not the only one expecting a living from selling what other people have manufactured and made available before your arrival. People who have computer access do not need the 'convenience' of your moving a product from one site to another and tacking on an additional charge.
Yes, there have always been middle men. However, they actually did something. For instance, the supermarket brings food to a centralized location. People are thankful they do this.
Amazon middle men do nothing. The items would be available at the same convenience without their unnecessary manipulation.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 1:28:10 PM PDT
C. garcia says:
This is why I hate the internet. People always complaining about something.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 2:16:29 PM PDT
How is he looking down his nose at consumers, he sets a price, some consumers are fine with it and buy, others say no way and leave, I don't see any indication he is making fun of those who don't wish to pay high rates, he flat out says you can easily look elsewhere... Where are you getting this feeling that he is superior to those who buy his products?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 2:24:59 PM PDT
shiloh sales says:
I do not encourage high prices and I don't care what price somebody prices an item at. If I see an inflated price, I laugh at it and the seller and move on. If somebody goes out of business because their prices are too high, they deserve it!!!! and have no business being in the business in the first place.

Questions of the day

1. Just because an $11 toy is priced at $100, is anybody buying that toy at $100?

2. Do other sellers have that toy listed at $11?

3. What is wrong with putting at least half the blame on the buyer for paying $100 for an $11 toy? It seems like buyers want to put all the blame on the seller and no blame on the buyers part.

4. Once again, could the $100 toy seller have made a typo instead of $10 and does not realize it?

5. Why toys and not something more important?

Why not direct the energy to complain about paying almost $4.99 a gallon for gasoline in Needles, California when you can drive across the bridge into Arizona and pay about $1.00 less a gallon (true story).

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 2:43:46 PM PDT
amanda says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 2:49:54 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Jun 8, 2012 3:30:16 AM PDT
DisplacedMic says:
"Amazon middle men do nothing. The items would be available at the same convenience without their unnecessary manipulation."

this is an unsubstantiated claim.
If an item can be purchased on the internet for one price, why would anyone pay more for that same item, all things being equal?

More to the point, if there is a demand for that item such that the reseller/useless middle man is able to sell at "inflated" prices then how could he buy up all the supply in the first place? Do you honestly think these people are swooping in and buying every item on the internet? The people with the ability to make those kinds of investments successfully would be better suited trying to beat the stock market.

This seems like a prohibitively difficult task.

But even still, what is that person contributing? Choice. If people are buying at that price, then people value the item at that price. If it is not available at YOUR price then it wouldn't have been anyway. Someone else would have bought it before you did.

This is a crucial point we all must understand:
The item that is selling at a price higher than you value it would probably not have been available to you at your price unless you were lucky enough to grab it before the quantity suppled at that price point was exceeded.

I very rarely buy concert tickets from a scalper - but if i do, I do so freely and i do it because i really want to see that particular show. in other words i value that experience higher than whatever amount of money i agree to hand over to that ticket scalper. And i do so gladly.

I got to sit on the second row of a Pavarotti concert in NYC 7 or 8 years ago. I had to pay out the nose for those tickets - but they would not have even been available to me had it not been for that scalper. The show was sold out - no way i was getting in let alone getting one of the good seats. I paid his price, shook his hand and got to have an experience that no amount of money could replace today.

My choice. My freedom. Didn't affect you at all.
What if i had taken those tickets and turned around and tried to sell them for twice what i paid for them to someone else?

Am I cheating the ticket scalper?
no, of course not. they were mine to sell.

Am I cheating the person who buys them?
No, of course not - he made the choice that he would rather have MY tickets than HIS money.

Am I cheating anyone else in the audience or who was unable to get tickets?
of course not.

The only argument you can make against this practice is that it's illegal in some places. But laws fall into 2 categories: laws that protect rights and laws that protect interests. The former being inalienable with the latter being much more open to debate.
Sometimes it can be a mixture of both - for example, people DO get cheated by scalpers who sometimes sell false tickets so sometimes places just ban it outright. This is fraud and absolutely should be regulated and punished. However the venue has no culpability in such a crime and therefore this is just one of the risks associated in entering into this particular market.

The same goes for any plastic toy or any other elastic good you can come up with.
Obviously Amazon would be within their rights to ban "scalping" type behaviour, fix prices or any number of policies in an attempt to keep people happy - but none of them would make for good fiscal policy or really help anything in the long run.

"You equate a sale with satisfaction. Not true. I may pay more for an item I could not otherwise find. However, I certainly will not seek out the person who sold it when I shop again. "

A sale is, by definition, based on mutual satisfaction otherwise it wouldn't have happened in the first place. You won't seek that person out again? I bet you will if you find yourself in the same predicament: looking for an item you could not otherwise find. But, if you decide that you value your desire NOT to do business with a business whose model you disapprove of then great - no sale. If enough people make the same choice, the price will come down.

That is just one of a million variables that goes into how we value any given thing at any given time. It's not always about price. It can be about time, effort, distance, politics or any number of a near infinite number of variables of varying degrees of logic.

Posted on Jun 7, 2012 2:50:10 PM PDT
@ amanda
I guess I just don't get the same "vibes" as you. I find this moral outrage of yours completely baffling. People buy and sell odd items at odd prices all the time. Amazon provides a very easy way to shop for the best price on an item. Your conjecture that items are not available anywhere else because of the activity of an Amazon reseller is difficult to believe. Do you have any proof that this has ever happened or is even materially possible?

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 2:58:34 PM PDT
I really don't get why everyone thinks reseller sit in front of stores and buy everything, a few may, I'm sure, but as someone who buys for personal reasons (myself and/or family) I show up early at several locations to get what I need, never see that mythical guy buying up the entire stock, in fact, often they restock just one of the rarer figures, so the blame from what I see is the market itself.

And yes, he can act like a serious douche, but that is aimed at the people who feel anything above what Walmart sells at is unfair (despite places like toys r us having inflated prices), not customers who show a little civility and respect. Just saying...

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 4:33:06 PM PDT

First of all, SFP or Shadow Fire. The Shadow controls the minds of men. It's not like a first name you can just use casually.

Next, spaces in between paragraphs work wonders.

Onwards, if there is truly an "$11 toy" out there, then knock yourself out and buy it for $11. Who is forcing you to buy for $100? No one is holding anything "for ransom". Don't be ridiculous. You use the word "ransom" like this inanimate object has been kidnapped. If the price is so high no one will buy, it will be lowered. If history shows the vendor can command that price, then they will. If the item in question is still commercially available, then of course, no one will buy it for $11. If it's OFF the market, no longer produced, then any vendor is free to price it as they please. It's no longer available. No one is beholden to any arbitrarily set price, regardless of if an item is still commercially available or not. If we had a 1872 penny, would you expect to buy it for a penny? Paper money costs about the same to manufacture. Trade you some of these $1 papers for the ones with $100 written on it.

What do "fairness and kindness" have to do with anything? Least of all sales? What does the Golden Rule have to do with anything? Is this just more of you posting whatever is on your mind at the moment, relevancy be damned?

Again, you somehow are equating that one seller's high price is affecting the whole community of sellers globally. Where in the world do you manage to make that correlation from? Charging as much as the market will "bare" [sic] is not only common sense, but being smart. Should everyone price things at a penny simply to please you? That would be ignorant. It's a shame you are unable to bribe the people in your life to love you, but it's not your place to insert your religion, or personal feelings into someone else's practises. You may not shop at the same vendor again, and that's fine. Others will. Again, satisfaction is not found in having the penny pricing. It's found when the commitment is fulfilled. The commitment to providing the sold item to the purchaser in the condition promised and in a timely manner.

It seems that money is everything to you. That's great. For you. For others, perhaps other things are important. Just as before, it's not your "right" or privilege to insert yourself into another's life. Personal or professional. You wouldn't go and tell someone else how to parent their child (but of course, you just did), but yet you somehow feel justification in doing what you think the middleman does, "inserting themselves where neither needed nor wanted". You've just inserted yourself where you are neither needed nor wanted.

If someone lives far from a store, or doesn't drive and there's no bus, or simply doesn't want to go out, then YES, they are happy there is a selection of companies with the item that person wants. It's not your job to tell someone, "NO! I don't like to shop elsewhere, so if I don't like it, you can't do it either! Don't you know they are neither needed nor wanted?? You don't want them, because I don't!" That person would likely stuff a foot somewhere while telling you to mind your business.

How is it that Amazon looks more and more like ebay? Please, explain this. Lots of details, please. One is a fixed-price marketplace open to various third parties who also sell at fixed prices and the other is an online auction site where people bid on items. Where's the similarities?

You return again to your "neither needed nor wanted" rant, yet you don't know that for a fact. As above, just because you personally don't like other people, that is not to mean others don't find them useful.

Additionally, there's no "manipulation" of anything going on. You actually made our point for us when you posted, "No you personally could not buy all or most of a product." EXACTLY. So there is plenty of product out there. You don't like third parties, then you don't have to buy from them, since by your own admission, there's plenty of product left. Thus, since there's plenty of product and other places to purchase from, you shouldn't have a problem. Speculators aren't relevant, because as you say, they can't buy up all the product, so you have nothing to fear. It won't be difficult at all to avoid buying from them.

More and more, you continue to prove our theory correct that you buy whatever "love" you receive from those around you.

Ironic, isn't it, that you are inserting yourself where you are neither needed nor wanted, just like the middle man you don't approve of.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 7, 2012 5:23:24 PM PDT
Fairness and kindness do play a roll, but it is only part of the entire process, I shop the same few stores near work, many small run businesses, every now and then they will give me a bargain because I go there so much, but on the other side, if I see they under charged me, I point it out, as I'd hate to see them lose what is rightfully theirs.

I've also had where an employee gave me a coupon for some free items, and when I came to use it, the guy who ran the register refused it, an employee who knew me started arguing in (insert whatever Asian language it was) she would take the charges off, he would put them back, over and over. I stopped going there because of that, so customer service does matter, but it isn't price for me, it is how they treat you, and how you treat them.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 8, 2012 9:07:11 AM PDT
Mr. Kern,

Yes, absolutely, you are correct. However, in the context of what Amanda is attempting to get across, she is confusing her morals and her religion with running a business. Unless you're a church shop, we just don't feel a need to advertise religion as a part of it. Of course you want a pleasant customer service experience overall. We frequently hand out discount certificates for those on our Facebook, or repeat customers.

However, what we're taking "issue" with, so to speak, is the notion that losing money selling things at a penny to satisfy someone else's notion of morals has nothing to do with running a business. If you are in business to perpetually bow to the wishes of others, then you're definitely in the wrong line of work, as sometimes you need to take a hard stance. The second you bow to the whims of another, you will absolutely see that person again and again, because they will expect for you to bow to their whims again and again, and will continue to "up the ante" so to speak, to see exactly how far they can push, and then they will ensure that everyone knows that you are a "pushover", and very soon, you will lose money and your business will be owned by everyone else.

Fairness is an interesting concept. It's about applying the same rules to all, and rewarding the loyalty of your customers who are showing loyalty to you. Mostly about applying the rules equally, not about "making sure you lower your prices to make me happy, and I don't care about you being happy as long as I am".

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 8, 2012 1:22:43 PM PDT
Agreed, I just wanted to point out they do have a place, just not the way she seems to think.

In reply to an earlier post on Jun 8, 2012 1:32:38 PM PDT
We could have phrased it better to make it clear that we're all for the pleasant customer experience, of which fairness and kindness would absolutely play a part.
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Discussion in:  Toys forum
Participants:  160
Total posts:  346
Initial post:  Feb 9, 2012
Latest post:  Jun 8, 2012

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