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Customer Discussions > Twilight forum

WHY do we love Twilight Saga?


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Showing 26-50 of 63 posts in this discussion
Posted on Nov 2, 2010 3:08:59 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Nov 2, 2010 4:57:34 PM PDT
fran says:
"Bella is the only one who feels compassion towards Leah and who defends her regardless of Leah's filling towards Bella." When? Could you please give me a moment. Because I sure don't remember that from the book. All I remember is her crying and Edward complaining how "harsh" Leah was. As for the reactions bit...You know I really wouldn't blame Bella for being rude toward people who are mean to her first. But, she is not that much nicer to NICE people (Mike, Eric, pre-Eclipse Jacob).
Have you ever heard of the term Mary-Sue? It's a character who is a stand-in for the author. They are lavished with powers, all the "good" or important characters love them unconditionally or at least come to like them as is Rosalie's case, anyone who hates them is either evil, jealous, or bad. They get EVERYTHING in the end with no strings attached. They hardly have to work for their happy endings. Everything (power, love, a good life etc.) is handed to them on a silver platter. If your hard pressed to be convinced, take a quiz called the Mary-Sue Litmus Test and fill in the traits that coincide with Bella. I've taken it, and she's scored above 50, well into the KILL IT DEAD! catagory. So a lot of this is owed to Meyer's fantasy of having the "perfect" life.
"The fact that we argue about it points to the fact that the book is good enough to stir these controversies." That makes absolutely no sense at all! If anything it reinforces how impossibly bad this book is. Listen. You are aware that popularity isn't always a good thing? Then I think this is mostly a case of WHAT people are complaining about. MANY people feel that Twilight promotes abusive relationships, sexism, pedophilia, poor writing, and an author with her head stuck up her butt. These are all very negative things. Controversy is normally founded on BAD things. The reason it's blown up so much is because many fans of these books are rabid and continually shove it down other people's throats. Indifference is probably what it would be if so many girls would just shut up about it. A LOT of people have actually turned against Twilight for this very reason. Read the boards, you'll find them.
Controversy CAN be petty, no doubt. A good example is Harry Potter, which I think is a phenomenal book. The only reason some people persecuted it was because the female wizards were called "witches". And that's about all they can bring up. But, if you read the books, you know there's nothing wrong. Twilight, on the other hand, has some serious issues that I've stated above. It alarms people how much young, impressionable girls and some HOUSE WIVES are eating this up.
But, give it at most three years after the last movies and Twilight will quickly be forgotten. Harry Potter will no doubt stand the test of time because it's that good. It speaks to all ages and both genders. It gives a universal message about love, friendship, courage, and family. Twilight only speaks to hormonal teenage girls.

Posted on Nov 2, 2010 8:46:45 AM PDT
LiveItUp says:
GraooGra...I agree completely with what you said about Bella and Rosalie's relationship. Eclipse is a turning point in their relationship. Bella thought that Rose's hostility toward her was because of something she had done. When Rose explains that it is because she is giving up everything that Rose would give anything to have, they come to an understanding. Then, Bella does go to Rose when she learns that she's pregers b/c Rose is the only one that would understand her choice to keep the baby, no matter what the cost.
Bella felt nothing buy sympathy toward Leah for what happened with Sam. Leah is very defensive because she feels that Bella is mistreating Jacob, which Bella acknowledges. She knows that she is drawn to him, and tries to explain that there will never be anything beyond friendship eventhough whe loves him very much.
Thanks GraooGra for looking back to the books and putting Bellas first impressions of her classmates in an earlier post. This is something I meant to do, but haven't had a chance. I couldn't recall where in the books Bella had said the nasty things that Fran had accused her of. But again, this is because we interpret things differently. It may have never said that Bella thought she had eternity to go to college, but that is what I thought she felt.
Ofcourse Bella speaks about the Cullens, and "Edwards hawtness" a lot. This story is told from her point of view. We get the unfiltered version of what she is thinking.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 2, 2010 8:39:28 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Nov 2, 2010 8:40:58 AM PDT
GraooGra says:
As a digression... it is excellent that characters of that saga create different feelings in readers. Controversial is good, it makes us think, it make us discuss, it make us even argue, or "boil our blood". 'Hate is good', like Jacob said, hate is passion. It is not numbness or indifference. We like Bella or Edward, we dislike them, and it doesn't matter. The fact that we argue about it points to the fact that the book is good enough to stir these controversies. It is multidimensional and it brings something into each one of us. That is what a decent piece of literature should do.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 2, 2010 8:19:34 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Nov 2, 2010 8:20:32 AM PDT
GraooGra says:
Fran, I mentioned these 4 girls and wanted to examine Bella's responses to them just to prove that she is kind and she is not opinionated. She is either very neutral or even sympathetic to these girls who, for all their own reasons, don't like her. That's my point! Bella mentions as a matter of fact that Lauren doesn't like her, so she tries to stay away from her. Jessica is a phony friend but Bella still tries to be sociable with her. Rosalie is simply envious and she admits it at the time of her confession. Bella sometimes feels intimidated by her but she doesn't comment Rosalie's behavior with anyone. She acknowledges the hostility but she doesn't complain about it. And do you remember what happened when they came back from Italy? Bella very quickly forgave Rosalie. Rosalie's confession was a turning point in their relationship. Also don't forget to whom Bella run after learning that she is pregnant. She trusted only Rosalie because of that confession. Bella's conduct towards Leah proves even more that she is kind, companionate and understanding. Bella is the only one who feels compassion towards Leah and who defends her regardless of Leah's filling towards Bella.

Posted on Nov 2, 2010 7:21:22 AM PDT
LiveItUp says:
I agree Callie, that Carslile and Esme have a beautiful love that has stood the test of time! I think that what you said about the books being an escape is so true.
I think it is so silly when people talk about how it isn't possible for Vampires to make love and make babies, because come on people, we're talking about Vampires!

Posted on Nov 2, 2010 4:50:49 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Nov 2, 2010 4:52:38 AM PDT
Callie says:
Being a sixteen year old female who got sucked into the Twilight world when I was fourteen, I must say that there are a lot of times when I don't understand my infatuation with these books. Granted, I've never cared much for Bella; I don't hate her, but as it has been said, her whining (namely in Eclipse) does get on my nerves. I like Edward for the most part. His character does grow throughout the books...And I'm a sucker for anyone depicted as a teenager that speaks properly. I think that I enjoy the books because it's pure escapism. They make me forget about the worse things in my life when I take the time to re-read them. I also love the morality that the Cullens have when it comes to hunting (true, they're not the first "vegetarian" vampires depicted, but I still like it) and (no matter how filled with plot-holes) I enjoy the crazier elements in Breaking Dawn.

But before I even finished reading them for the first time, I became enamored with Carlisle and Esme more than anyone. Honestly, after taking the time to research their backgrounds a bit more, I'd much prefer it if the books were about them. I think that even though they are in the background the majority of the time (especially Esme), they are a better embodiment of true love than Edward and Bella. Their relationship has been in tact for what, around 80-90 years? They came to each other after tragedy and he helped her find love after her abusive past, they still love each other, neither is the dominant one; they are equal, they are both there for guiding and comforting their "children", and they have some of the sweetest, purest moments when they are given the time of day by S. Meyer.

Just my two cents.

Posted on Nov 1, 2010 5:39:51 PM PDT
LiveItUp says:
Thanks Fran.... You must admit that you don't sound like a typical teenager.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 1, 2010 3:33:38 PM PDT
fran says:
Ummm...I need to make a confession. The person who goes by the name of "Fran" is actually my mom. I'm her sixteen year old daughter, Fran Jr. Just wanted to clear that up.

Posted on Nov 1, 2010 10:01:50 AM PDT
LiveItUp says:
"I'm a sixteen year old girl and aspiring writer." Fran writes in a discussion that she started back in August.
"This product definitely takes the place of sugar and it's healthy too. I use it to sweeten my daughters oatmeal. She loves sugar so I thought she may notice the difference. Instead she went back and got more." Fran writes on a product review that can be seen on her profile.
So....who exactly are you Fran...A 16 year old aspiring writer with a daughter??
Something fishy here...

Posted on Nov 1, 2010 2:02:47 AM PDT
Ishtar says:
I agree with Fran. I couldn't stand Bella for the whole saga. I thought she was whiny and too dependant on Edward to save her.

I also couldn't stand Edward after New Moon when he dumped Bella. It also didn't help that Bella fawned all over him for pages because he was so pretty, which I could understand in Twilight but not like that for the rest of the books.

I liked Rosalie and Jacob. They were the main reasons for I even read the books.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 31, 2010 4:42:02 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 31, 2010 5:11:21 PM PDT
fran says:
Okay maybe that is the case. But,the fact is that her behavior toward these people isn't much better than her descriptions. You said she wasn't opinionated. I was saying otherwise. It doesn't change the fact that she is constantly comparing Mike to a dog and anyone who opposes Bella is automatically a jerk.
The Cullens are still described an excruciating amount of times. I'm really talking about the way she approaches these people. Like I said, if she was the way you said she was, then honestly, she wouldn't be able to stand one minute with these people.
Second about the "jealous" girls. On the spur of the moment, I really would like you to answer these questions for me. Rosalie was raped by her own fiance and his friends. She was turned into a vampire against her will. This deprived her of the life she wanted; having kids, marrying a decent husband. Then Leah is dumped by the man she loved for her COUSIN, JUST because of imprinting. And Emily has the audacity to ask her to be the bride's maid at the wedding in which the man she loves is marrying someone else. Now both of these girls are treated as harpies. Why? Because they are upset and are trying to express themselves. Yet, no one cares. Everyone thinks they're insufferable losers who need to get a life.
Meanwhile there's Bella...Now she's constantly complaining about the town she WILLINGLY moved into. "Forks is my personal Hell on Earth." She cries and moans and groans when she's DUMPED. All she does is sit around and feel sorry for herself. Yet everyone is always there to hold her hand and comfort her. Are you getting the picture? Now Rosalie is upset with Bella for giving up everything SHE'S always wanted. Jealousy? Maybe. Yet, in my opinion it's completely justified given her ordeals. Everything that held value for her was ripped away by someone she trusted. Then this whiny girl steps up wanting everything you hated, not realizing what she had. Wouldn't you be a little upset?
Leah is called out when she yelled at Bella. What did she yell at her for? Using Jacob and toying with his feelings. Did Bella do that? Heck yes! But, Bella got her feelings hurt so Leah is the more horrible out of the two.
Now answer me this. Do you agree with Meyer for treating BELLA like the victim out of these three girls? Is it right for Bella to be stated as having a "difficult" life when Leah and Rosalie are treated like whiny, crybabies yet have a harsher background? Bella's reactions? What reactions? She doesn't have an ounce of personality to get a hold of these things. You ought to just decide upon YOUR feelings about these girls because that was Meyer's intent. This is wish fulfillment. One could only wish they could be that vain and selfish without getting any hate. Bella is flat enough for girls to find that appeal.

Posted on Oct 31, 2010 4:26:13 PM PDT
[Deleted by the author on Oct 31, 2010 4:26:42 PM PDT]

Posted on Oct 31, 2010 4:25:42 PM PDT
GraooGra says:
As a response to other comments.. Confidence or the lack of it. Confidence is correlated with achievement. Bella cannot be confident yet because she didn't achieve anything yet in her life. She is just a high school girl. This is her first relationship, her first major change in her life.
Edward. He doesn't think high about people because he knows their thinking and their weaknesses. Generally speaking he stays away from them because he doesn't want to hurt them and/or to be exposed. Bella brings back human feelings in him.
LiveItUp - you are probably correct about Bella not necessarily wanting to be a housewife. It was my side-track thinking that she is a good material for a housewife.
Fran - you are probably correct that Bella doesn't have any clearly identifiable hobbies or interests. She cooks for her father but I think she also does it just "to escape". I observed that when she has some difficulties and she wants to avoid thinking about it she goes to kitchen to make Lasagna or to wash dishes. It might be also a hint that she likes these chores. I know, when I want to escape I go to weed the garden, so I projected that to her. Meyer mentions her cooking many times in the book.
Also it is true that the literature Bella reads is mandatory in HS but she comes back to it many times and we know she doesn't have any problems with writing essays. It indicates that she probably likes humanities more than math for this same matter.
I cannot take it against Bella because interests form at that age or they might be existent yet.
I would also agree with you that she might not be the role model for young girls. She might represent an average young girl. Maybe that's why I like her and a lot of women like her because we can identify with her.

Posted on Oct 31, 2010 3:11:56 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 31, 2010 4:02:19 PM PDT
GraooGra says:
Fran,
I also need to address the Pedowolf accusation. It cannot exist because Renesme is not fully human. She grows radically fast. Her fetus grew to the full nine-month-old child size within one month. Also we know from the guest Alice brought from Amazon jungle that these type of species reach their full adulthood by the age of six or seven. Because of that this is straw man argument. Something is artificially created and then attacked. There is nowhere in the book stated that either Jacob or someone else will breed with a child. This is like arguing that Seven Dwarfs from Snow White where homosexual men living together.

Posted on Oct 31, 2010 2:55:38 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 31, 2010 3:02:38 PM PDT
GraooGra says:
Fran,
I checked Bella's first encounter's with her new friends and so far:
- Eric is presented as "gangly" with pimples and greasy hair.
- Jessica is tiny, several inches shorter than Bella with wildly curly dark hair which made up a lot of the difference between their heights. Angela is not described at all, just that she is shy too.
- Cullen's kids are described on several pages and description started from behavior, not looks. Bella notices that they are separated from the rest of the kids, not talking and not eating their food. Then notices their unusual looks as well, etc.
- Mike is cute, baby-faced boy with pale blond hair carefully gelled into orderly spikes.
- Jacob is presented as young boy who showed interest in Bella when she was introduced to him by Mike. Then he is described as young, with glossy black hair and handsome. Other Indian boys are not described just the oldest which was probably Sam. Bella noticed that he might be too old to hang around with teenagers.
First, I think it is natural to notice looks when you meet someone for the first time in your life. You don't know anything about that person, so you cannot start from describing personalities. Bella is no different than everyone else in these circumstances. She sees someone she notices some physical features or notices behavior if it is unusual.
Second, I don't see any derogatory words, unless `gangly'/tall sounds that way, I don't know I'm not native English speaker. Description of Eric just shows that he is a typical teenager whose limbs grow fast and he just has acne. We can only speculate from that description that probably he didn't appeal to her physically. Mike and then Jacob, on the other hand, seam to be "better looking" to her. She is not totally oblivious of them.
Third, I want to point out to something else which might tell us something about Bella's character. We know that four girls Lauren, Jessica, Rosalie, and Harry Clearwater's daughter-Wolverine (I forgot her name) don't like Bella. We might assume they are jealous of her. I would like you to analyze Bella's behavior toward these girls and what she thinks about them.

Posted on Oct 29, 2010 3:46:33 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 29, 2010 3:49:52 PM PDT
fran says:
Thank you LiveItUp. I know I may seem kind of mean and bratty (though I like believing I'm just passionate) about my views. And I admit that I'm a little selfish and hostile when it comes to something I oppose. But, I don't want to fight people and in all honesty (hard as it is to believe) I'm really not a confrontational person. But, 1: I'm not a pacifist and 2: I really enjoy debating. It allows me to engage my mind and helps me expand my horizons. Sorry if you felt attacked. I really don't have problems with you liking the story. I just have a problem with this book. Now you said that I didn't seem to be acknowledging some of the things you said. So I reread them.
"She knew that after she was changed, she would have eternity to continue her education." Please don't take this personally, but honestly I don't recall her EVER mentioning anything about wanting an education or anything else for that matter. I think that all she was focused on was being pretty and staying with Edward (for whatever reason). Plus, that wasn't the only thing I was upset about.
"The fact that she lacks confidence makes others able to identify with her. I can assure you that I have (and still do from time to time) felt inadequate, not worthy, etc... " There's an enormous difference between lacking confidence and just being a doormat. At least you undoubtly have redeeming qualities that compensate for your flaws. I'm sure you wouldn't let someone push you around and dictate your life. At points, I lacked confidence in myself, but I'm aware of my saving graces, something Bella seems to lack.
" He means well and only does it to protect her, but she makes him understand that he can't be with her every second and that she needs a life and friends."...Not really. Again I can't really recall a time when Bella ever stood up for herself against Edward. As embarrassing as it is to say, I may have been a little bit like that too, back when I was an elementary kid and kind of a push over. Now my confidence has risen greatly and I learned how to respect myself. Maybe it's because I'm more independent than most or it's just that I've come to embrace who I am, but I just can't identify with someone who's willing to accept all the things Bella has tolerated. Not only does it sound stupid to me, but it also sounds very harmful. I'd be absolutely MISERABLE with someone like Edward. I know everyone has different preferences, but it just doesn't seem right for girls to appreciate a guy who stalks them, berates, isolates, and BUYS them like Edward does. They would be in for a pretty nasty ride no matter how much Meyer praises this.

Posted on Oct 29, 2010 9:28:46 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 29, 2010 9:29:30 AM PDT
LiveItUp says:
Hi Fran, I do apologize for the immature and close minded comments. I was on my ITouch when writing the comment last night and after going back to the beginning to ammend some of my comments, I decided to erase the sentence at the bottom and couldn't figure how to scroll back down. I know...silly reason, but the truth. My blood was a little hot (not quite boiling) when I started it.
When I said close minded, I meant that I had given several explanations to some of your critiques that you didn't seem to acknowledge. Close minded was a little strong, and I didn't mean to offend you.
I appreciate that we seem to have a difference of opinion. I suppose I agree to disagree. I do appreciate your examples of favorite literature, and see a couple of my favorites in there.

Posted on Oct 28, 2010 8:49:19 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 28, 2010 8:57:44 PM PDT
fran says:
"You are very close minded Fran. You have made up your mind, so really no point in continuing to debate." Really? Close minded. I just explained my reasons for feeling the way I do. Since obviously this discussion has deteriorated to the point that it's no longer taboo to use ad hominem, let me just say that that was a pretty lame move on your part. Yet again I'm a moron for disagreeing with your views. Maybe I didn't explain well enough so let me elaborate.
"When Bella went to James, I think it was a selfless act! She wanted to protect the ones she loved including her mother, Edward and the other Cullens." Doesn't matter. I totally agree that it was right for her to want to save her mother. I wasn't implying any different. But, I wanted to say that she went about it WITHOUT USING BACKUP. That's one of the stupidest things I've ever seen. This is the point she has the opportunity to try to develope a plan so that they can rescue her mother. What she could have done was tell Alice and Jasper what was going on and try to fool James by making him believe Bella was alone before the others could attack.
Second. The term Pedowolf was NOT invented by me if that's what you believe. Again, I don't care how many excuses Meyer is trying to pull out of her butt, imprinting is a method for BREEDING purposes. That means that by the time Renes-whatever is a seven year old girl Jacob and her will mate. They will obviously be thinking about sex with these children. Look up "child grooming". This situation sounds EXACTLY like that.
"Bella made arrangements for Reneesme to survive, which was also a selfless act. I have two children and I can tell you that to make a decision to let them go knowing that you wouldn't make it but had to ensure that they did would be gut wrenching!" Of course she'd do that. That's what most mothers would do. But, I honestly feel that, it really doesn't compensate for all her past deeds that you willingly ignore. I'm not saying she's a heartless psycho who deserves to be buried alive. But, just because a person does a good thing, doesn't change the fact that they are selfish, shallow, and vain which I happen to think she is.
Seriously I don't know if it would do any good having this discussion with you. Your blood might be boiling like mine was when I heard you accusing ME of being close minded and immature. But, when you see something you think is wrong and are outraged that other people are praising it as right are you just going to sit around and agree? I don't think that ANYTHING in this book sends a positive message. I'm standing up for what I believe in. Honestly I thought you were a nice person. You seemed to be willing to be civil and friendly by asking what type of books I read. I tried to answer you by praising books I thought sent the right message. But, apparently, your book is so precious that it's alright to bash people who are expressing themselves and fighting against something they think is wrong. I just can't tell you how wrong that is ESPECIALLY when it's a book.
Oh and if you've gotten this far, did you JUST read the first paragraph ONLY? If you did, you ought to go down and read more about what I was trying to tell you. I hope that you aren't attached to these characters that one little jab at them, will set you off causing you to start making accusations.

Posted on Oct 28, 2010 7:29:31 PM PDT
LiveItUp says:
When Bella went to James, I think it was a selfless act! She wanted to protect the ones she loved including her mother, Edward and the other Cullens. In New Moon, when she "turned into a Zombie" I could actually relate. I was hurt so deeply that i was numb for several months. She was in mourning... She had lost the love of her life. To call Jacob "pedowolf" is quite immature. SM explained quite clearly that the relationship wasn't that way at all. Bella made arrangements for Reneesme to survive, which was also a selfless act. I have two children and I can tell you that to make a decision to let them go knowing that you wouldn't make it but had to ensure that they did would be gut wrenching! You are very close minded Fran. You have made up your mind, so really no point in continuing to debate.

Posted on Oct 28, 2010 6:20:53 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 30, 2010 8:24:47 AM PDT
fran says:
"OMG, he is so hawt" may be the way it started out in Twilight, but that is where Bella was at that point. I think she became a strong young woman who did make decision for herself. They grew and evolved as a "normal" couple would have." When? In New Moon, Bella shuts down for FOUR MONTHS after Edward simply left her. In Eclipse she was busy being carried around, fainting, and getting herself into more trouble than was necessary. And in Breaking Dawn, the only way she could become stronger was by giving up her own identity and life, and setting aside anything of importance. She's willing to leave her daughter in the hands of Jacob (aka Pedowolf) and have sex with Edward nonstop. That doesn't sound very inspirational or healthy. If anything she is exactly the same as where she started: Shallow, vain, stupid, and wimpy.
"Tell us what you enjoy reading. Who do you consider to be a good author?" I adore Harry Potter, Lord of the Flies, Shakespeare, The Bartimaeus Trilogy and some fantasy classics like C.S. Lewis. Where the Red Ferns Grows and Summer of the Monkeys are some of my personal favorites by Wilson Rawls. But, because I'm so young, I'm still very inexperienced when it comes to the greats like Tolkien, Brave New World, 1984, Animal Farm, and many others. But, what I really treasured about a lot of these books more than reading them, was the fact that they evoked feelings and thoughts that rang true to real life. It made me think. About myself, society, human nature etc. Harry Potter and Lord of the Flies are my favorites when it came to this. They gave realistic interpretations of social status and reactions. When it came to emotions, Where the Red Ferns Grow came as a powerful story of love, courage, and the bond between a boy and his dogs. The thing about these books was that they tried to touch the bigger picture and send out a message. Twilight did none of that. It was a shallow story riddled with plot holes, one dimensional characters, disgusting messages, and poor writing.
"It's really too bad that you were once a fan and let others influence you otherwise. I like what I like and I won't let others manipulate my opinion." No. I was presented with the naked and brutal flaws of this story. In truth I was manipulated by the HYPE Twilight was getting. As I said, even when I was a fan I couldn't help but get a strange feeling whenever I read these books. My friends were always showering it with praising saying how wonderful the story is and how in love Edward and Bella were, so I got caught up in it as well. But, by Breaking Dawn, it was becoming clear to me that Meyer really did a botched up job in both storytelling and writing in general. Reading what other people's problems were with the story, I realized that those were things that were bothering me, and I came to accept that this is a terrible story.

Posted on Oct 28, 2010 5:36:08 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 30, 2010 8:20:20 AM PDT
fran says:
Graoogra, I understand that you don't think I'm a hater. I just felt that when LiveItUp asked if I was lacking in a life I got pretty irritated. Thank you for being civil with me and sorry if any of you felt I was attacking you. Sometimes I get carried away.
But, honestly I don't have a problem with people liking the book, I have a problem with people saying this is the pinnacle of literature and Edward and Bella are good role models. I have a problem with Meyer who has obviously written this as a means of wish fullfillment fluff and gets more attention than authors who are far more deserving. And since this is a debate, I will share my views:
"She is not opinionated. She doesn't allow herself to think bad about her friends or other people." Are you completely, honestly, irrefutably sure that this is true. Think about it. Reread the book and stop on any of the parts when Bella encounters someone. Upon meeting someone she THINKS is ugly, she uses very unflattering terms to describe them. "Sausage fingers," a "bad perm", "very plain" these are all off the top of my head. This certainly doesn't exclude her "friends" most notably Eric (the chess club geek with bad skin) and Mike (the DOG)! Does that sound like respect to you. Then one of the BIGGEST faults, one that you admitted she was guilty of, was using Jacob in order to hear a voice in her head. She flirts with him, pretends she wants be his best friend, and makes him fall for her, only for her own selfish gain.
Then read about her first sight of the Cullens. You really give her too much credit. Read the story and try to find one moment when she actually DIDN'T talk about their looks. In order for her to be deep, she has to breech the surface and think about something more substantial, like...I don't know...Their PERSONALITIES.
"She likes literature, she likes cooking and working around the house." Again, this is a case of telling and not showing. We're never shown this. And besides that, all of those books she's mentioned happen to be books assigned in high school. So even down to TELLING she still shows the signs of a CASUAL reader and not an avid reader. And the only reason she decided to cook and clean around the house was because she felt that Charlie was doing a horrible job. In her holier-than-thou, self righteous attitude she felt she was OBLIGATED to do so. These are not hobbies or interests.
"The thing is that she doesn't want a thing what is expected of the girl of her age, like good university and well developed five-year carrier plan. She just wants to be with Edward forever. What is wrong with that thinking?" What's wrong with it is that she's willing to throw away not only a career but a LIFE, family, friends, and her whole identity just to be with a guy who stalks her, ridicules her, and manipulates her every move. This in and of itself is very sexist and is one of many flaws this book is guilty of.
"She might symbolize individuals who, through history, were able to make contacts and friendships with different civilizations or to reach out and understand different races." Again WAY too much credit. If anything, she symbolizes all the racist, petty scumbags who were the source of the problem. Again, she doesn't hold an opinion beyond looks. She's willing to overlook anyone who doesn't meet her standards. In order to be accepting, you have to have an open mind, intelligence, and generally a heart. Bella has none of those things. If she did, and she was presented with people like the Cullens, I'd think she'd be repulsed, ESPECIALLY with Edward. Read Midnight Sun, and you'll discover his VERY low opinion of humans. He feels superior to them. That's basically the pinnacle of racism. Besides that, the Cullens are so shallow and petty, that it's impossible to actually like them once you look at it a certain way.

Posted on Oct 28, 2010 2:47:25 PM PDT
My dear Fran,

You misunderstand me. Though I am quite passionate about what I do or do not believe in, it doesn't mean that I am not open to others opinions. I was nearly stating mine. I don't think that those who are apposed to Twilight, are wrong for thinking or feeling the way they do. I do feel though that some poeple attack the subject with as much venom as it would seem you feel I have attacked them and that is not debate..that is just poop slinging.
I apologize if I offended anyone. Including you Fran.
I do also agree with LiveItUp. This is an OPEN discussion board, but I think most people are of the mind that it is for twilight FANS. I guess maybe that is why I became a little irrate. But, it is a public domain so all are allowed to be here. Just so that those people who don't care for Twilight understand that it is OK to disagree but how you disagree can make all the difference in whether people take it as an attack or an opinion as I so obviously demonstrated earlier.

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 28, 2010 1:28:46 PM PDT
LiveItUp says:
It's really too bad that you were once a fan and let others influence you otherwise. I like what I like and I won't let others manipulate my opinion.
' "This book sux. All fans are dumb!!!" ' This is what a lot of Twilight fans encounter. This infact is a forum for fans to discuse a loved series of books, yet you come here to debate. I do agree with Twilighter that this is a FANTASY. You are criticizing the fantasy aspects of the story, not just the "poor writing".

Posted on Oct 28, 2010 8:46:04 AM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 28, 2010 1:08:09 PM PDT
LiveItUp says:
GraooGra, I don't think Bella wants to sit at home and be a housewife. She had plans to go to college, but put that on hold to become like Edward. She was accepted, albeit with help from Edward, to Dartmouth. She knew that after she was changed, she would have eternity to continue her education.
I do agree that she does have a wonderful personality. She is kind, caring, and like you said, understanding. The fact that she lacks confidence makes others able to identify with her. I can assure you that I have (and still do from time to time) felt inadequate, not worthy, etc...
Although Edward is perfection in Bella's eyes, he does have flaws. Bella makes him see that he is controlling. He means well and only does it to protect her, but she makes him understand that he can't be with her every second and that she needs a life and friends.
Even at 107 years of age, he is still with flaws Bella brings Edwards human qualities back to the surface.
First love and innocence draw me to the Twilight series. Edward hasn't felt the way he feels with Bella with anyone in all of his time. He is still a virgin and wants to save himself for marriage. It is so important to him that he give that gift to Bella also.
Carslile carries his love with him after his transformation and after many years "studying" the ways of the Volturi, he learns that the Vampires can live a more humane life. They can survive without taking lives. They can live as a family and love.
Now, Fran... Not all Twilight fans are obsessed teens. We can debate till doomsday, but the fact remains that everything said is based on interpretation and opinions. The Twilight series made me want to pick up a book and read for the first time in 8+ years. That is a good thing, right?? I understand that you say that Stephenie lacks talent, but I think differently. "OMG, he is so hawt" may be the way it started out in Twilight, but that is where Bella was at that point. I think she became a strong young woman who did make decision for herself. They grew and evolved as a "normal" couple would have.
As far as being a "role model", I think that in a day when young girls have such little self respect that they will have sex with any and everyone, "wait for marriage" is a great message. Even "wait for the right one".
Tell us what you enjoy reading. Who do you consider to be a good author? I read Water For Elephants in anticipation for the movie coming out next year. Have you read it?

In reply to an earlier post on Oct 27, 2010 8:24:42 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Oct 27, 2010 8:31:39 PM PDT
GraooGra says:
Fran,
Let me clarify something. I never said you are a hater; I was the first one to say that it is great to have someone with different opinion, so we can have a meaningful conversation.

Now I would like to defend Bella. One of the reason's I like Twihlight is because I like Bella's character. You said: "Bella has no personality, because she doesn't hold an opinion beyond looks. She doesn't think about the bigger picture, doesn't have ANY goals, any hobbies, or interests. Without these, it makes it very difficult to establish deep thoughts or opinions that could be an inlet for development."
I believe she has personality. She is kind. She is not opinionated. She doesn't allow herself to think bad about her friends or other people. That quality helps her to see Cullen's in a different light, as good creatures. She doesn't classify them and doesn't reject them like the other people do. She is a type of person who is able to "cross the bridge", communicate with outcasts, find good qualities in them, and accept them. Bella is pretty extraordinary in that sense. I believe, because her unique personality, only she is able to reach to the word of supernatural. She might symbolize individuals who, through history, were able to make contacts and friendships with different civilizations or to reach out and understand different races.
Bella has interests, goals and hobbies. She likes literature, she likes cooking and working around the house. She is (as Edward discovered) a care-giver. She acts like a person who is sure what she wants and has a premonition of her future. The thing is that she doesn't want a thing what is expected of the girl of her age, like good university and well developed five-year carrier plan. She just wants to be with Edward forever. What is wrong with that thinking? Does every girl should desire to be a professional, especially when she is 17-years old? There is nothing wrong with being a housewife. It is more difficult and maybe often less rewarding and less regarded status of the woman in today's modern society. The problem lays within society's modern opinion and judgments of these women personalities, not the other way around.
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