Your Garage Luxury Beauty Best Books of the Month STEM nav_sap_plcc_ascpsc Samsung S8 Launch Starting at $39.99 Wickedly Prime Handmade Mother's Day Gifts hgg17 Shop Popular Services billions billions billions  Introducing Echo Look Starting at $89.99 Kindle Oasis Nintendo Switch Shop Now disgotg_gno_17
Customer Discussions > Video Games forum

OT: Ehh, I don't think I believe in God anymore


Sort: Oldest first | Newest first
Showing 426-450 of 746 posts in this discussion
In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 12:39:49 PM PST
Nightmare says:
"Which morals are those?"

The morals in the Bible.

"That certainly could imply that allowing a child to live a bad life is, in fact, immoral."

Considering that this was an exceptional case, and murder is immoral, that is certainly not the case.

"I don't hurt other people unnecessarily. That is the only reasonable definition of sin."

Ok, fair enough if that's what you believe. But what exactly makes hurting people wrong? Why is that a bad thing?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 12:41:09 PM PST
Nightmare says:
I would tend to argue that God wouldn't punish them for not believing in Jesus. "Where much is given, much is required." Since they have not been given what is necessary to know Jesus, they are only required to live a virtuous life based on what they do know.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 12:48:13 PM PST
GUEST!! says:
Haha, everyone has a skill, I guess. I think my downfall as a Christian started to come when I tried to put myself around more theologians in anticipation of my future work and I started to find that most of the time the Atheist theologians I met were more compassionate and loving than the Christian ones.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 12:49:36 PM PST
GUEST!! says:
The morals that suit God. The morals are absolutely absolute, unless God absolutely needs to ditch them.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 12:54:08 PM PST
Nightmare says:
What morals did God ditch?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 12:55:12 PM PST
But thats my whole point, WHY don't you own slaves? According to you, it is not immoral for christians to own slaves.

So if someone were to get arrested for owning pagan slaves in today's world and they were a christian, would you say that they did nothing wrong? Because according to the Bible, they didnt do anything wrong.

And yes, I said that in the last post, if 99% of the world felt that slavery was a moral thing, then it likely would be seen as a moral thing. But the one thing you're forgetting is that it would also be seen as moral by 99% of christians as well, all people who base their morals on the Bible. So explain to me, if your and other christian morals are based on the Bible, how can they change?

You're trying really hard to avoid the question. Yes or no, not this waffling, is owning a slave, who isnt a prisoner, in today's world immoral?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 12:55:38 PM PST
GUEST!! says:
Do not Murder, unless it is convenient to God. We were through this yesterday.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 12:56:22 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 28, 2012, 12:56:41 PM PST
MrFoxhound says:
God kills, allows girls to be raped in place of angels, floods the earth, genocide, abandonment, abolishment of his children, grants a prayer for bears to maul children for making fun of an ugly, bald old man.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 12:57:44 PM PST
Joel H. says:
Those are tight lyrics what band is that

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 12:57:47 PM PST
Rockhardly says:
"How does anything I've said imply such a thing?"

You wrote this:

"I believe that God's benevolence will result in the greatest good coming from this, because like I said earlier, if the reward for any pure innocents that might have been killed by God's decree is great in heaven, then it works out for the best. I would much rather have bountiful blessings in heaven (which is eternal) than on earth (which is very fleeting in comparison)."

If this is moral because it "works out for the best" for an innocent child to be killed and receive "bountiful blessings in heaven", then how does that not extend to abortion? What child is more innocent than an aborted child? Are you saying that this statement above (regarding fleeting blessings on earth vs. eternal blessings in heaven) is no longer true? How can you reconcile that abortion is wrong given what you wrote above?

Regarding this:

"But since you think it's so clear that the Bible's teachings are wrong (at least in certain instances), what is the alternative viable moral authority that you appeal to to decide what is right and wrong?"

This sounds suspiciously like a cut-n-paste from William Layne Craig, (not sure of exact spelling - or if I even got the name exactly right) or any number of the numerous apologists like Ray Comfort, the Hovinds, etc., that, in my opinion, go a bit too far in trying to make their point. It's a question so filled with rhetoric that it's most useful attribute is to attempt to shut down a debate without truly addressing what the other person has said.

I'm assuming you read my post and understood that I was pointing out that the idea of it being "OK" to murder children was in direct contrast to the majority of the teachings in the Bible and - if you are a Christian and believe that God can influence you now - what I've understood about God since.

So to answer your rhetorical question - the alternative viable moral authority is the Bible.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 12:57:52 PM PST
Last edited by the author on Nov 28, 2012, 12:59:07 PM PST
MrFoxhound says:
Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles of which every man of every faith can embrace.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 12:59:39 PM PST
MrFoxhound says:
Holy Bible: King James Version

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 1:00:22 PM PST
GUEST!! says:
<3

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 1:00:42 PM PST
Ahh but the same Bible mentions that one should follow Caeser's laws as you follow his own (honestly cant remember the exact passage).

So why are Caeser's punishments for those laws not enough for God?

And to me something that small is such a petty crime that if there is a heaven (remember I still am not 100% sure there is), I just think its unjust to keep someone out of it for stealing say 10 dollars, one time in their life. But according to the Bible if they did and never asked God's forgiveness, then they are going to hell. To me that is the making of an very unjust God.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 1:00:54 PM PST
Ned Flanders says:
Deny= not ask Him to come into their heart (i.e. have authority over their life)

or

Deny= flat out say God/Jesus do not exist.

I have not seen anyone live up to Jesus's standard either because nobody is perfect but they do not have to be because of Jesus.

I have problems in my life just like everybody else does but I pray everyday that I am forgiven of my sins. Jesus did not say accept me and you will live sinless. He said accept me and your sins will be forgiven.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 1:01:41 PM PST
Nightmare says:
"But thats my whole point, WHY don't you own slaves? According to you, it is not immoral for christians to own slaves."

Again, there is NO obligation to own slaves. Just because something is not immoral does not mean I have to do it. It's not immoral to ride a bike, but a continue not to do it. Is that so surprising?

"So if someone were to get arrested for owning pagan slaves in today's world and they were a christian, would you say that they did nothing wrong? Because according to the Bible, they didnt do anything wrong."

Owning a slave is not immoral. The method of acquiring a slave could be immoral. But if the charge was that they owned a slave, then I don't think they did anything wrong.

"And yes, I said that in the last post, if 99% of the world felt that slavery was a moral thing, then it likely would be seen as a moral thing. But the one thing you're forgetting is that it would also be seen as moral by 99% of christians as well, all people who base their morals on the Bible. So explain to me, if your and other christian morals are based on the Bible, how can they change?"

"likely would be seen as a moral thing" and "it would be moral" are two different things. You are avoiding this question. Would it be moral or not if 99% of people believed it was moral?

My morals won't change, and other "Christians" change their morals then I would argue they either aren't really Christians or they are just not very well read on what the Bible says. My views won't change with the times, unless I am presented with good evidence to do so. Just because other so-called Christians change their morals just tells me their faith isn't very grounded.

"You're trying really hard to avoid the question. Yes or no, not this waffling, is owning a slave, who isnt a prisoner, in today's world immoral?"

I'm not trying to avoid this question. Owning a slave is not immoral. How you acquire said slave is another ball game entirely.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 1:02:27 PM PST
"Considering that this was an exceptional case, and murder is immoral, that is certainly not the case."

And what makes you the authority on whether this was an exceptional case and not a lesson meant to pass knowledge and morals to those who follow the word of God??

Have you been divinely inspired to know which passages carry what weight in the Bible?

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 1:05:27 PM PST
"I started to find that most of the time the Atheist theologians I met were more compassionate and loving than the Christian ones."

While not always the case, I have noticed this quite a bit myself. Christians tend to be extremely compassionate and loving as long as you are a Christian, but if you're not the scorn you receive can be extremely off-putting. When I first started openly questioning, I was too young to realize the tension it can cause. I basically had an aunt disown me because I wanted to know more and wouldnt just take the "you have to have faith" response.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 1:08:49 PM PST
Nightmare says:
Wrong. Murder is killing somebody without moral authority. Again, capital punishment is not murder, because there is moral authority there. Same if God gives the moral authority to do it. No ditching here.

"If this is moral because it "works out for the best" for an innocent child to be killed and receive "bountiful blessings in heaven", then how does that not extend to abortion? What child is more innocent than an aborted child? Are you saying that this statement above (regarding fleeting blessings on earth vs. eternal blessings in heaven) is no longer true? How can you reconcile that abortion is wrong given what you wrote above?"

Again, the issue is moral authority. God gave the moral authority to kill the Canaanites, but no such moral authority is granted for killing babies or people in general. Just like in the case of capital punishment, the moral authority has to be there. Since God gave the moral authority, it was ok for the Israelites to do. However, since innocents were killed by this order, God can easily give a sufficient blessing in heaven to more than make up for what happened under this specific order.

"This sounds suspiciously like a cut-n-paste from William Layne Craig, (not sure of exact spelling - or if I even got the name exactly right) or any number of the numerous apologists like Ray Comfort, the Hovinds, etc., that, in my opinion, go a bit too far in trying to make their point. It's a question so filled with rhetoric that it's most useful attribute is to attempt to shut down a debate without truly addressing what the other person has said.

I'm assuming you read my post and understood that I was pointing out that the idea of it being "OK" to murder children was in direct contrast to the majority of the teachings in the Bible and - if you are a Christian and believe that God can influence you now - what I've understood about God since.

So to answer your rhetorical question - the alternative viable moral authority is the Bible."

In that case I've already answered the question earlier in this post. The Bible makes it clear that murder is wrong. Killing is not always wrong, because given the moral authority it is the right thing to do (e.g. capital punishment). I am still being consistent, but you have failed to present an alternative to the Bible as a governing moral guide.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 1:11:01 PM PST
"Owning a slave is not immoral."

Thanks, thats honestly all I needed to know. While I respect that you have your opinion, at this point I see no further reason to continue discussing this with you. If you can honestly say that sentence and mean it, it really seems to me as if something is very wrong with you. It might be that my moral code is much stricter than yours. But anyone who could say that actually owning a slave in today's world is not immoral is someone I dont think is worth discussing this sort of thing with. It would be akin to me discussing why rape is bad with a rapist.

I do hope you one day start questioning some of these moral guidelines you force upon yourself. Especially if you are attempting to follow the Bible so strictly. I never disagreed the Bible was a bad tool, it helps a lot of people learn basic moral principles. But it is also very flawed as many of its moral principles are very outdated. Thanks for the discussion, but from here on I doubt I'm going to reply to anything you write.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 1:11:26 PM PST
GUEST!! says:
"Same if God gives the moral authority to do it. No ditching here."

And yet, I would still question any God who told me it was a just and moral thing to perform the wholesale genocide of an entire nation of people.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 1:12:06 PM PST
Nightmare says:
I'm not the authority, the Bible is. The Bible says murder is wrong. Murder is killing somebody without the moral authority to do so. God gave the moral authority for killing the Canaanites. Therefore, murder remains immoral by Biblical standards. As to whether or not it might be a lesson for future generations, considering it doesn't ever happen again (except maybe in the case of Jericho), it's clear the Bible is not trying to convey any such idea.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 1:14:46 PM PST
Nightmare says:
Fair enough. You have avoided presenting me with a moral alternative to what the Bible says, but you obviously aren't obligated to do so, so I will finish by saying that it was good debating the subject with you.

P.S. Simply asserting that something is wrong does not make it so.

"And yet, I would still question any God who told me it was a just and moral thing to perform the wholesale genocide of an entire nation of people."

And that's perfectly ok if you would question that. I'm just making the point that there was no ditching of morals.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 1:17:53 PM PST
MrFoxhound says:
But that didn't happen unfortunately. The nation didn't revile in disgust when it was revealed that god had Dubya him to invade Iraq. He used American lives and fabricated a lie about WMD's to hide the fact that his god decreed Iraq the next location for a crusade, and he used American resources to fulfill his delusion.

In reply to an earlier post on Nov 28, 2012, 1:19:40 PM PST
GUEST!! says:
"Murder is killing somebody without the moral authority to do so."

There needs to be more to the definition of murder than that. "Murder is morally wrong because it is morally wrong to murder" is recursive logic.
[Add comment]
Add your own message to the discussion
To insert a product link use the format: [[ASIN:ASIN product-title]] (What's this?)
Prompts for sign-in
 


Recent discussions in the Video Games forum

 

This discussion

Discussion in:  Video Games forum
Participants:  70
Total posts:  746
Initial post:  Nov 24, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 30, 2012

New! Receive e-mail when new posts are made.