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Customer Discussions > Video Games forum

Next gen Xbox already has RRoD before release

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Showing 1-25 of 64 posts in this discussion
Initial post: Sep 6, 2012, 4:48:51 PM PDT
Kin-foot says:

Xbox 720 Could Be Delayed by Manufacturing Trouble
`Oban' processor reportedly facing shortages.

Rumors suggest that manufacturing trouble could delay Microsoft's next Xbox. According to tech site SemiAccurate, the `Oban' processor that powers the system is facing shortages that could prevent Microsoft from manufacturing enough consoles for the oft-rumored 2013 launch.

SemiAccurate reports that manufacturing yields on the new processor's production wafers are "painfully low." As explained by OXM, that means "for every wafer, or sheet of silicon chips, created, only a tiny percentage are actually usable. Think of it like a sheet of baseball cards. If one sheet makes 30 cards, but only one card comes out without any issues or defects, that's a bit of a problem." Microsoft has reportedly increased Oban manufacturing to "very high quanitities" that SemiAccurate notes are "too high by more than an order of magnitude to simply be for dev kits."

Microsoft will reportedly try to get parts from two or even three sources in order to increase its odds of success, but SemiAccurate reports that Microsoft doesn't have long to set things right if it wants to hit a target date of fall 2013. "It takes about 8 weeks to run a hot lot through a fab and analyze the results," the site notes. "If production wafers are really going in this year, the last time a foundry can run a test wafer is about November 1. Anything after that day will not come out of the fab in time for the results to be fed back in to the production chips. That is the technical term for `The XBox Next is going to be delayed.'"

Anonymous sources suggest to SemiAccurate that there's "some slack" in Microsoft's production schedule, and that even a six to eight week delay wouldn't be enough to push back the next Xbox's launch. "Microsoft insiders tell us that the planned launch date is September 2013, and that is not changing without heads rolling internally," SemiAccurate writes. "Given the very hard limits imposed by the fab technologies involved and the self-imposed start date, time is running out. If there is two months of slack in the supply chain, unless the yield problems are solved by late February 2013, Microsoft can't hit its desired September 2013 launch date."

We heard in January that the Xbox 720 chipset was already in production, though the first run may have simply been for the development kits that are already being distributed. IGN sources suggested in the past that the next Xbox will be six times more powerful than current generation consoles.

We've reached out to Microsoft about the rumored manufacturing delays and will update with any comment we receive, though given Microsoft's reluctance to mention the new Xbox, it's unlikely we'll hear any additional information. For now, read what we know about the next Xbox so far thanks to a Microsoft patent from earlier this summer.

Posted on Sep 6, 2012, 4:52:51 PM PDT

Posted on Sep 6, 2012, 4:55:02 PM PDT
DVvM says:
Also, that's a terribly misleading headline, since it doesn't describe what's going on at all.

The "Red Ring of Death" on the original Xbox 360 was just the indicator given for a "general, nonspecific hardware failure."

What's happening here is that in the fabrication process for the CPU for the NeXtbox, they're getting a very low yield in terms of "chips that meet spec per wafer" since silicon wafer used for fabricating microprocessors cost thousands of dollars, this is a bad thing and means Microsoft won't put the chips into mass production until some foundry figures out how to tweak the process to increase the yield.

"A nonspecific hardware failure" and "low yields to the chip fabrication process" don't have a darn thing to do with each other.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 4:56:05 PM PDT
Kin-foot says:
Having 3 360s RRoD and 2 with video card failure...i don't really care.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 4:58:41 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 6, 2012, 5:00:02 PM PDT
DVvM says:
You don't care that you're wrong?

You do realize that every new microprocessor involves figuring out how to increase yields in the fabrication process, right?

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:02:14 PM PDT
Kin-foot says:
I don't care you don't have a sense of humor. Enemies of fun make bad drinking buddies.

Posted on Sep 6, 2012, 5:02:50 PM PDT
The butthurt is strong in this thread.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:10:26 PM PDT
Kin-foot says:
Seriously, try to have a little fun and everyone is oh no my favorite system insulted. Whiiiiiiiiiiiiine! Well this is the VGF so what else should I expect really.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:11:38 PM PDT
fun in this forum? LOL everyone here is bitter and can't take a joke

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:11:45 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 6, 2012, 5:22:23 PM PDT
DVvM says:
I don't see why a blatant misrepresentation of something (based, apparently, on ignorance) should qualify as humor.

I mean, if it was funny, then you could pretend you were kidding. But it's more flamebait than "a legitimate attempt at humor."

I mean, if someone were to create a thread titled "PS4 has no games" and then have the entire text of the OP be: " ", that wouldn't actually be funny.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:12:07 PM PDT
DVvM says:
The NeXtbox is nobody's favorite system. It doesn't even exist yet.

Posted on Sep 6, 2012, 5:13:41 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 6, 2012, 5:17:36 PM PDT
Sha Gojyo says:
LOL wow, that's pretty sad for M$, they STILL can't fix the RROD, even on the X720. it's like the X360 gave birth to the X720 with the same X360 genetic disorders. but oh well, this just means that the PS4 will launch before the X720/Durango.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:14:42 PM PDT
The only person whining in this thread is you, dude.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:17:59 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 6, 2012, 5:19:22 PM PDT
DVvM says:
Except that this has nothing to do with the RRoD, or any sort of general hardware incompetence on the part of Microsoft. Microsoft is not even making the chips themselves, they don't have their own microprocessor foundry, they hire someone else to do it.

"Figuring out how to fix low yields" is an intrinsic part of creating any new microprocessor. Wafers cost thousands of dollars, and you hope to get hundreds of chips from them. When you only get, say, dozens of chips that are up to spec per wafer, then you won't put that chip into mass production yet since nobody is going to want a chip that costs hundreds of dollars to manufacture.

The only interesting thing about this is that we're comparatively late in the game here and none of the foundries MS has contracted with to produce the chip (including IBM and GlobalFoundries who are industry leaders in this sort of thing) have figured out how to tweak the process yet to get yield to an acceptable level to go into mass production. It's not that somebody designed a chip that can't be mass produced, and it's not that the people making this chip are too stupid to figure out how to mass produce it, this is just part of the process.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:20:04 PM PDT
Did it hurt sha?

Posted on Sep 6, 2012, 5:22:20 PM PDT
John McClane says:
How can there be a RRoD if there's no ring?

Posted on Sep 6, 2012, 5:23:34 PM PDT
Forever R. says:
why would they announce and release the system in the same year? that doesnt even make sense they would announce something that big at e3 at least a year or two before they drop it!

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:25:45 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 6, 2012, 5:34:21 PM PDT
DVvM says:
Doesn't Apple announce iPhones no more than a few months before you can buy them? Apple sells more iPhones than Microsoft sells Xboxes.

EDIT: I checked
iPhone 4S announce October 4, 2011 available October 14, 2011
iPhone 4 announced June 7, 2010 available June 24, 2010
iPhone 3GS announced June 8, 2009 available June 19, 2009
iPhone 3G announced June 9, 2008 available July 11, 2008
iPhone announced January 9, 2007 available September 5, 2007

I mean, everybody "knows" that there's a new Xbox coming next year, just like everybody "knows" that there's a new iPhone coming this fall (they'll announce it on September 12, and it'll probably be available like a week later.) You don't have to wait for E3, or CES, or WDC, or anything to make an announcement. You can announce things whenever you want.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:25:53 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 6, 2012, 5:26:41 PM PDT
Sha Gojyo says:
[Customers don't think this post adds to the discussion. Show post anyway. Show all unhelpful posts.]

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:26:53 PM PDT
When your parents played basketball with your head...

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:30:32 PM PDT
Last edited by the author on Sep 6, 2012, 5:31:33 PM PDT
Sha Gojyo says:
wow, no need to be a insolent harsh person Val...

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:31:41 PM PDT
I always thought his parents lost a bet with God/Gaia/Sony/Obama/whatever higher power they believe in.

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:33:27 PM PDT
Kin-foot says:
And everyone else :/

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:34:51 PM PDT
They did...the bet was to see how many times his head would bounce if dropped from 10 feet...his parents didnt account for how hollow his head bounced 5 times, they bet on 3

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 6, 2012, 5:35:23 PM PDT
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Discussion in:  Video Games forum
Participants:  19
Total posts:  64
Initial post:  Sep 6, 2012
Latest post:  Nov 10, 2012

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